Good Inexpensive Camera for Beginner??

[ppatrick]

After browsing SB and a couple local diving boards I landed on the Canon A520 and the Canon housing (WP-DC60) for it. I haven't used it yet (just showed up on the UPS truck a couple days ago) but I plan to use it for a trip to Tahiti and my diving around the Puget Sound area. The camera (including a big storage card, rechargeable battery package, ...) was under $200.

Hi EvilSlumLord,

Can you tell us where did you get the A520 and WP-DC60 and memory and rechargable battery for $200? That's a very good deal! I'm also a beginner who is looking for a decent inexpensive underwater digital camera. I don't need fancy features like white balance because I don't know how to use them anyway. ^_^ All I want is the ability to view pictures after shooting.

Please also post your Tahiti pictures after you go there.



Thanks,
Patrick

 

[diverrick]

Actually you DO need white balance, as the camera does not know what "white" looks like underwater. It decides all the other colors by reference to white.
It tries to use the default preset "white" setting for above ground pics, so all you underwater pics will have a torqoise/blue color to the whole picture, and they will not be very good as a result.
With white balance, you take down a white slate, (or uses white sand) set up your white balance and litterly show the camera what white looks like, by snapping a view of the white slate at the depth you want to take a picture (see users manual for details). Now the camera knows what white looks like, at that particular depth, and can get all the other colors correct, now that it has a reference color to use.
I didn't know that little peice of information for along time, and ruined a whole lot of trip pictures as a result. Now they come out like the pros.... well... kinda like the pros. but much better then the old "blue" pictures.
As an aside, white balance is also used when your under flouresent lights, VS sun light. If you don't set the white balance, the pictures will all be the wrong color as well.
I hope that makes sense to you. It's kinda hard to explain it in simple terms.

 

[ppatrick]

diverrick, thank you for educating this newbie. ^_^ My land digital camera also has the white balance feature and I never used it (actually don't even what it is until now). Just wonder, how come the land cameras know white color but underwater cameras don't? I never used the white balance of my land digital camera and 99.9% of the pictures turn out to be very good.

What other important features should I look for when buying the digital underwater camera (for beginner)? Can you recommend the affordable one (price under $300 for camera, external flash, and housing)?


Thanks,
Patrick

 

[diverrick]

The reason the camera doesn't know what white is underwater, is because, the color get filtered out by the water. Some colors go quicker than others. As you go deeper, the more color is lost. The camera has no way of knowing this.
On land, the colors are almost always the same, so the pictures come out good most of the time, except, like I said under the flouresent light, which also inserts an artificial lighting that is not the same as sunlight, so if the White balance is not set properly, the pic will come out wierd with indoor lighting(usually reddish or yellow tint), there is usually a preset setting in whitebalance that sets a happy medium for artificial light, but under water, every depth has a differing amount of color separated out due to depth/visibility, so you must reset the WB at every depth(show the camera what white looks like at that depth). Yes a big pain in the butt, but absolutely imparitive, if you want a true color picture. If you use a flash underwater, it replaces the colors that had been filtered out, so there is no need for white balance adjustments when you use a strobe.
As far as cameras go,Maybe you should consider buying a good used one from someone. Better camera for less $$ but be sure you have the white balance, and if you get a stobe, it needs to be away from the camera, to reduce back scatter issues. By the time you done buying the case, trays, arms, camera, and all, you won't find much new stuff for under 300.00, at least from what I saw when we were looking to buy.
You can also buy film camera setups sometimes for those prices, as no one seems to want them much anymore.

 

[diverrick]

I use California Digital Diving for all my stuff. The owner is Ken, and he will point you in the right direction, even if it means he doesn't make a sale as a result. He wants you to be happy with your purchase, and have fun taking pictures. Look him up on the web. http://www.cadigitaldiving.com/
Good luck

 

[micahjt]

Buy a book, do some reading before you spend your money.
SeaLife cameras blow chunks, they stink in so many ways I don't have time to list them all.....
White balance is extremely important and RAW format is highly desirable.

 

[alo100]

I think the housing for prosumer kinds of camera is around $100 to $150, then the housing for DSLR is around $1000. That would instantly draw a gap, if you will, to differentiate between the end up cost of the prosumer & that of the DSLR. Instead of suggesting which model or even which brand, my 2 cents is, get a prosumer camera, with a good strobe that will last all the way until you are ready for a DSLR to go underwater. Canon 350, Nikon D200/D80, Sony alpha... etc. they are just the beginning of some DSLR in good quality..... if you can wait for a while probably you won't regret for the wait.....

What prosumer to get? There are a lot of suggestions here and there....
the point is, it make a lot of sense to get a good prosumer at this moment, you still have some selections, and the quality is good enough for you to enjoy the wait.

 

[ppatrick]

Thank you everyone for more info.

Diverrick, do you really have to adjust WB at every depth? I thought WB adjustment is automatic (my land digital camera does it automatically).

Micahjt, is raw format the uncompressed pictures (like .TIFF or something like that)? Honestly I never edited my land digital photo. I doubt that I would for underwater digital photo. Maybe the raw format would be the “nice to have” for me.

Alo100, thanks.


I just found a cheap solution last night. My sister has a Sony DSC-W1 camera and she wouldn’t mind lending it to me because she knows that I’m not going to use it every week. I’m thinking about getting a housing ($130 to $150). Then I’ll ready to go. Right? Yes? No?

 

[micahjt]

RAW format allows control over white balance in the editing stage that you can't do with other formats. If your not interested in doing any editing of your scuba photos then white balance becomes all that more critical when your taking a shot. Therefore, manual white balance is extremely important. There is a loss of color in shallow water starting around 2-3', reds are lost first and color is continually lost the deeper you go. Your camera will not automatically adjust for this loss of color. That is one of the primary things that makes scuba photography different than land photography.
So, when you get your scuba camera, whatever you choose, make sure it has manual white balance and learn how to use it right away.
I would suggest that you do get a camera with RAW format as it really doesn't add to the price of the camera and you very well may want to do some editing in the future. I have saved a LOT of what would be trash photos by having the ability to edit them in RAW.

Here are some shots with a SeaLife DC310 with a single strobe. Notice the color problems with the cyan and pink. The cyan is from lack of any white balance. The pink is blown out with light from strobe.The DC310's firmware tries to compensate for color when it interprets something as white. The camera doesn't know what to do with the brite white so it turns it pink, cyan or green. A major flaw with this camera in my opinion. When I called SeaLife to ask for advice I was told to shoot my underwater shots in land mode (?) I kid you not. Another problem, the SeaLife strobe dumps full power with every shot so a diffuser is required or the problem of blown out photos happens 90% of the time. You'll notice anyone posting a shot with the DC310 will more than likely have some degree of problems with color in their shots, I've also seen this in the DC500 to a lesser degree. The DC500 was an improvement but it still lags far behind what other manufacturers are coming out with. The SeaLife digital strobe was an improvement in that you can adjust the output to some degree but there have been many problems with the stobes not firing. It still isn't much better than a flashlight. With all that said, yes I do have some nice shots taken with the Sealife cameras but they are far and few between.
I would suggest purchasing a nice point and shoot camera in an Ikelite or proprietary housing and then add a strobe after you get comforatable with the camera. For the price of a DC500 you can get a really nice camera and housing. Decent strobes are pretty expensive but you can find something adequate at a decent price and still be light years ahead of the SeaLife products. Don't fall for the "beginners camera" or "cheap but sturdy" hooey nonsense, buy the best that you can afford and you'll more than likely be happy with your purchase. As far as SeaLief being a good beginers camera I'd say that is flat out wrong, there are so many problems to overcome and the frustration level is so high that it really does nothing to teach you about the basic concepts of underwater photography....in fact it is a good way to lose interest quick.

These shots were taken with a FUJI E900, first time out with the camera. Getting the right equipment made all the difference for me. I would recommed the Fuji but I know there are some other nice brands and models out there if one wants to do the research. The Fuji E900 can be purached for ~$295 (it makes for a great land camera too) and an Ikelite housing for it is ~$300. It's hard to beat 9.0 MEGA PIXELS at ~$295!!! Did I forget to mention the video on this camera is great too.

 

[ppatrick]

Micah, Thanks a lot for showing many photo and sharing your experience. As I mentioned in the previous post; I probably go with my sister’s Sony DSC-W1 and buy a housing (cost about $130 - $150). The only concern I have is that if I want to add a strobe in the future; can I do it? I guess I have to do some more research. However I think DSC-W1 with housing would be good enough for a beginner like me who are going to have three to four dive trips a year (don’t know how many dives I would do per trip).

PS. I really like your eel and the yellow ring creature (don’t know what it is) pictures. ^_^