jdelprete
Contributor
yeah I do not see how legally they could enforce such a restriction.
Gloucester Dive Flag Law Update
- Thread starter wreckedinri
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jdelprete
Contributor
Agreed wreckedinri. As a biologist myself the lobster stocks over the years have actually increased. The laws in place now seem to be doing a good job at maintaining the stocks...almost as good as the law on stripers, which now has brought down the size limits since there are so many. All in all he amount of divers taking legal lobsters from the sea is infinitesimal in comparison to lobster fishermen themselves and yet still the stocks are still doing well.
It does all come down to the fact that people don't want divers around and thats sad because I would say that most divers are good hearted people that want to preserve and protect the very waters they dive in. Many of us try to abide by the same attitude as many campers with a carry in take out attitude leaving it cleaner than whence you came. Yes there are always those morons and idiots out there...as a big freshwater fisherman I see the same thing and get disgusted seeing lures, line and trash littering the waterside....
It does all come down to the fact that people don't want divers around and thats sad because I would say that most divers are good hearted people that want to preserve and protect the very waters they dive in. Many of us try to abide by the same attitude as many campers with a carry in take out attitude leaving it cleaner than whence you came. Yes there are always those morons and idiots out there...as a big freshwater fisherman I see the same thing and get disgusted seeing lures, line and trash littering the waterside....
paulthenurse
Contributor
LobstaMan:
Twins with different accents.
We have thieves on Summer Hill.
You have thieves on Federal Hill.
We have thieves on Beacon Hill.
You have thieves on... Is your capital building on a hill?
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I am a left coaster way out in California...But perhaps I can offer some advise.
Almost fifty years (50) ago the divers of CenCal and SoCal faced the same obstacles. The city of Monterey and Laguna Beach also were popular diving areas that era and remain so today do to the efforts of a few early divers for the many many divers of today.
Monterey, near San Francisco was the first to enact a diving oridance. They wanted to eliminate diving from the shores of their then sleepy bucolic city. After months of meetings, with the divers being led by Oscar Astoris (s) (as I recall) , they settled on restricted parking and restrictive access to certain areas of the shore line.
Laguna Beach, in Orange County (OC) became a battle ground! The then mayor, the late Glen Vedder not only wanted diving to cease he wanted very limited acess to the city's very fine beaches, eliminating diving, surfing, and sun bathing.
The OC divers were fortunate in several ways; we had a number of the larger diving manufacturing facilities located in in the county; US Divers, Voit and a smatering of supporting vendors. We had a history; recreational diving had been practiced in OC for at least 20 to 30 years, the first Spearfishing meet was held in 1950 at Laguna Beach,ten years previous and every year since.
We had a good leader in Mr.Ron Merker, (who is currently very ill) the president of GLACD (Greater LA Council of Divers) who had a strong support from the members.
We, the GLACD had the late Mr.Bill Barada as a member--As a OC resident and former GLAC president he knew how to organize and promote money and most of all excite the divers that they were about to lose their prime SoCal diving beaches. Bill the "Bac ca ruda" as we called him was and is still with out equal in exciting divers to real or imagined diasters in the diving world. So Bill was put to work!
We had the support of most of the diving shops thoughout SoCal, who used Laguna as a check out location as well as a recreational dive location.
The battle was set--We then young but certainly motley divers appeared at the city council meetings in suits and ties-we were very professional in appearance and attitude..The council was that of a beach community and some what lack in their dress...they rest is history--they espressed concerns that were addressed one by one which resulted in "The oridance" which identified the rights of divers and home owners..Over the year it has been modified but is essentially the same document that was enacted 45 years ago.
A few thoughts and comments;
10-12-06
crlavoie --
"...we bring nothing of =value to their town..."
>>I would suggest as I proposed 50 years ago that the divers establish a month in which they pay for every thing the purchased with in the city with silver dollars=remember it is legal tender and cannot be refused as payment. Or paint the back side of coins with a bright nail polish to use as diver currency. The merchants will soon recognize the ecomonic impact of divers--
"...noise ...about parking
>>This was a problem that was addressed in Monterey and Laguna. In Monterey divers now park and dress and undress in a resricted area parking about 1/4 mile from the diving beaches. In Laguna beach there is only street parking. However a a time restriction was inacted -no diving before 7 am and not after 10 pm and no scuba classes before 7 am and after 10 am.
"...Confontations with lobstermen..."
>>Be nice, pleasant and friendly discuss every thing but lobstering..I did. After the ordance passed with the late Mr.Glen Vedder, the mayor of Laguna Beach We and members of his family settled our differences and eventually became friends.
11-19-06
vedio joe
"...Partner ship ...sharing the space..."
>>This was also a subject of discussion; a division of the beaches, some for diving, some for surfing and some restricted to sunbathing and never will they mix. This was totally unacceptable--some areas in Laguna are great night diving beaches but horrible during the day due to surf activity--so there was never an offical division but it was discussed in detail.
"...Help them with feed back..."
>>What a capital idea! Be part of the solution not a part of the problem. The Lobstermen probably have no UW vedio capibilies and would welcome assistance, how? what? I don't know but step forward and ofer for FREE all they can due is say NO!
11-10-06
jdelprete
"...Biologist...lobster stocks have increased..."
>> This indicated to me,also a bio major and an outsider that here is ample lobster to go around for every one.
I would suggest this be graphicly demonstrated via large charts and presented at one of the council meetings and insure that a hand out be presented to all in attendance.
10-10-06
masharkdiver
'...organize a political action committee (PAC)..."
>> great ideal! But also request funds from all the local dive origanzations, the local dive shops, DEMA, the major manufactures; US Divers, Scuba Pro, etc -remember it is a tax write off for all of the organizations encluding the shops. Request legal advice from them to assist your attorney--they all have attornies on retainers setting a round collecting fees.
I would also establish a strong PR program with in the state. Issue PR releases at every opporunity, make UW vedos send to the TV stations, establish a spoke person (s) to be on local talk radio. Became very visable!
Establish a fund raising program for the protection of diving rights. All sorts come to mind, sell something univerally useful; a base ball cap, atee shirt, have a special program with noted speakers, have a special movie night; how about JYC's "The Silent world" and/or "The World with out sun?"
I would also suggest that some one in authority write Monterey and Laguna Beach California for copy of their oridance .
Put Fred Calhoun to work! He is retired has nothing to due and needs to get back into the swing of things. He is a number one first class shaker and mover!
I hope that this has some how been of assistance to you. You have a battle on your hands as we in California did so many years ago. I am reminded that there are very few, only two remaining who were a party to the "Battle of Laguna Beach," all the rest are diving in the big reef in the sky and I certainly don't have too much time remaining. I wanted to document this activity for you and hopefully you can glean some value from it for your future encounters. If I can be of any further assistance please conact me.
Fellow divers it was one heck of a battle but we won and diving is alive and well in Laguna Beach--thanks to all my departed buddies who spent hours and days and many sleepless nights worring and set through many borring meeting in a tie and jacket to preserve diving in Laguna Beach. It was certainly worth it and I would do it again if needed!
So get to work!
Samuel Miller,
California
Almost fifty years (50) ago the divers of CenCal and SoCal faced the same obstacles. The city of Monterey and Laguna Beach also were popular diving areas that era and remain so today do to the efforts of a few early divers for the many many divers of today.
Monterey, near San Francisco was the first to enact a diving oridance. They wanted to eliminate diving from the shores of their then sleepy bucolic city. After months of meetings, with the divers being led by Oscar Astoris (s) (as I recall) , they settled on restricted parking and restrictive access to certain areas of the shore line.
Laguna Beach, in Orange County (OC) became a battle ground! The then mayor, the late Glen Vedder not only wanted diving to cease he wanted very limited acess to the city's very fine beaches, eliminating diving, surfing, and sun bathing.
The OC divers were fortunate in several ways; we had a number of the larger diving manufacturing facilities located in in the county; US Divers, Voit and a smatering of supporting vendors. We had a history; recreational diving had been practiced in OC for at least 20 to 30 years, the first Spearfishing meet was held in 1950 at Laguna Beach,ten years previous and every year since.
We had a good leader in Mr.Ron Merker, (who is currently very ill) the president of GLACD (Greater LA Council of Divers) who had a strong support from the members.
We, the GLACD had the late Mr.Bill Barada as a member--As a OC resident and former GLAC president he knew how to organize and promote money and most of all excite the divers that they were about to lose their prime SoCal diving beaches. Bill the "Bac ca ruda" as we called him was and is still with out equal in exciting divers to real or imagined diasters in the diving world. So Bill was put to work!
We had the support of most of the diving shops thoughout SoCal, who used Laguna as a check out location as well as a recreational dive location.
The battle was set--We then young but certainly motley divers appeared at the city council meetings in suits and ties-we were very professional in appearance and attitude..The council was that of a beach community and some what lack in their dress...they rest is history--they espressed concerns that were addressed one by one which resulted in "The oridance" which identified the rights of divers and home owners..Over the year it has been modified but is essentially the same document that was enacted 45 years ago.
A few thoughts and comments;
10-12-06
crlavoie --
"...we bring nothing of =value to their town..."
>>I would suggest as I proposed 50 years ago that the divers establish a month in which they pay for every thing the purchased with in the city with silver dollars=remember it is legal tender and cannot be refused as payment. Or paint the back side of coins with a bright nail polish to use as diver currency. The merchants will soon recognize the ecomonic impact of divers--
"...noise ...about parking
>>This was a problem that was addressed in Monterey and Laguna. In Monterey divers now park and dress and undress in a resricted area parking about 1/4 mile from the diving beaches. In Laguna beach there is only street parking. However a a time restriction was inacted -no diving before 7 am and not after 10 pm and no scuba classes before 7 am and after 10 am.
"...Confontations with lobstermen..."
>>Be nice, pleasant and friendly discuss every thing but lobstering..I did. After the ordance passed with the late Mr.Glen Vedder, the mayor of Laguna Beach We and members of his family settled our differences and eventually became friends.
11-19-06
vedio joe
"...Partner ship ...sharing the space..."
>>This was also a subject of discussion; a division of the beaches, some for diving, some for surfing and some restricted to sunbathing and never will they mix. This was totally unacceptable--some areas in Laguna are great night diving beaches but horrible during the day due to surf activity--so there was never an offical division but it was discussed in detail.
"...Help them with feed back..."
>>What a capital idea! Be part of the solution not a part of the problem. The Lobstermen probably have no UW vedio capibilies and would welcome assistance, how? what? I don't know but step forward and ofer for FREE all they can due is say NO!
11-10-06
jdelprete
"...Biologist...lobster stocks have increased..."
>> This indicated to me,also a bio major and an outsider that here is ample lobster to go around for every one.
I would suggest this be graphicly demonstrated via large charts and presented at one of the council meetings and insure that a hand out be presented to all in attendance.
10-10-06
masharkdiver
'...organize a political action committee (PAC)..."
>> great ideal! But also request funds from all the local dive origanzations, the local dive shops, DEMA, the major manufactures; US Divers, Scuba Pro, etc -remember it is a tax write off for all of the organizations encluding the shops. Request legal advice from them to assist your attorney--they all have attornies on retainers setting a round collecting fees.
I would also establish a strong PR program with in the state. Issue PR releases at every opporunity, make UW vedos send to the TV stations, establish a spoke person (s) to be on local talk radio. Became very visable!
Establish a fund raising program for the protection of diving rights. All sorts come to mind, sell something univerally useful; a base ball cap, atee shirt, have a special program with noted speakers, have a special movie night; how about JYC's "The Silent world" and/or "The World with out sun?"
I would also suggest that some one in authority write Monterey and Laguna Beach California for copy of their oridance .
Put Fred Calhoun to work! He is retired has nothing to due and needs to get back into the swing of things. He is a number one first class shaker and mover!
I hope that this has some how been of assistance to you. You have a battle on your hands as we in California did so many years ago. I am reminded that there are very few, only two remaining who were a party to the "Battle of Laguna Beach," all the rest are diving in the big reef in the sky and I certainly don't have too much time remaining. I wanted to document this activity for you and hopefully you can glean some value from it for your future encounters. If I can be of any further assistance please conact me.
Fellow divers it was one heck of a battle but we won and diving is alive and well in Laguna Beach--thanks to all my departed buddies who spent hours and days and many sleepless nights worring and set through many borring meeting in a tie and jacket to preserve diving in Laguna Beach. It was certainly worth it and I would do it again if needed!
So get to work!
Samuel Miller,
California
jdelprete
Contributor
Thanks for the input Sam, everyones thoughts especially those who have seen similsar are appreciated. Certainly wish we had to local companies here for the support like Cal does but we will still get through it. I had to laugh at what the mayor said "banning, surfing, and sun bathing." I mean come on. Just have the laugh at the stupidity of some.
Gil57usa
Contributor
We have a similar situation here in New York at Canandaigua Lake. For as long as can be remembered, shore diving was allowed at Deep Run Park. It was even on the Ontario County website as "Scuba Diving allowed". It was a very popular spot for Training and for those who don't have a boat. Last year, a sign suddenly appeared on the fence saying "No Scuba diving allowed". The local Dive club I am a member of spent many hours and weeks and months trying to get it reversed. It was funny how nobody has a problem with us Diving there, but the county lawyer is suddenly concerned with liability (after 30 plus years with no incidents). Take my advice, get involved! once it is gone, it is probably gone for good. Remember, The rules are made by those who show up!!
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