Girl dead, boy injured - Lake McDonald, Glacier National Park

[BlueTrin]

He also mentioned that the case has just been settled. I’d like more details on that!

I think they refer to what’s discussed here

Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

The way I'm reading that order, it's just the minor E.G. that has settled, correct? Looks like it to me. Seems odd, why would the defendants want to settle one at a time? Maybe the family figures including the minor child won't really affect the larger settlement and want to keep the minor...

scubaboard.com

I didn’t read, TLDR, but someone said that it was not Mills family who settled.

 

[BlueTrin]

Ever been to a DUI test dive day?

no I have not been, is it worse or better?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

no I have not been, is it worse or better?

How could it be worse? Pretty sure these are done with dry suit inflator hoses for starters.

 

[DandyDon]

no I have not been, is it worse or better?

It's been many years so my memory could be inaccurate. It seems like ok training at the time, but only 5 or 10 minutes, then a checkout dive. Then they put me to work helping others dress in drysuits.

How could it be worse? Pretty sure these are done with dry suit inflator hoses for starters.

Oh yeah, and they showed me how to get out of an upside-down position.

 

[BlueTrin]

does anyone know the PADI rules for self certification as specialty instructors?

Is that the ones from this thread? PADI Specialty Instructor

Any PADI MSDT can self certify to teach a specialty after they sign that they have 20 dives relevant that specialty?

 

[Wookie]

does anyone know the PADI rules for self certification as specialty instructors?

Is that the ones from this thread? PADI Specialty Instructor

Any PADI MSDT can self certify to teach a specialty after they sign that they have 20 dives relevant that specialty?

There are other requirements, but yes.

 

[BlueTrin]

I couldn’t find something mentioning whether Debbie Snow was self certified for teaching drysuit specialty. I think someone mentioend that, can anyone confirm/infirm or link to something?

I found a filed document that says that Snow knows what self-certification but it does not say whether she was self-certified.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

does anyone know the PADI rules for self certification as specialty instructors?

Is that the ones from this thread? PADI Specialty Instructor

Any PADI MSDT can self certify to teach a specialty after they sign that they have 20 dives relevant that specialty?

Full disclosure: I'm a specialty instructor by dint of IDC training for nitrox and emergency oxygen provider. (We're also by dint of IDC specialty instructors for some AWARE content.) I'm self-certified for dry suit, deep, and search and recovery. I've only ever taught specialty courses in nitrox, emergency oxygen, project aware, and dry suit.

You pretty much nailed it. I don't know if providing logs is required or not; I did. I do know that if you "count" a dive as one of the 20 for dry suit, you can't count the same dive for a different specialty instructor rating. E.g., if I do a deep dive in a dry suit, I can't count it towards both instructor ratings.

You don't have to be an MSDT. Once you've certified 25 divers (the minimum to become MSDT) you can self-certify.

There are exceptions: You can't be a nitrox instructor unless you have a nitrox rating.

The problem with dry suit is that the certification wasn't really ubiquitous 25-30 years ago, when I first started dry suit diving. There were a lot of us who dove for decades in dry suits, building up a ton of experience. That leads to people like me who are dry suit instructors but not dry suit certified. I demonstrate the skills students have to do, but have not formally had my own skills evaluated as a student getting a dry suit certificate. (Informally, I learned the course-specific skills while DM'ing multiple dry suit courses. Occasionally demonstrating and helping students who were having difficulties....)

I think you could argue the same problem exists for specialties like underwater photographer/videographer and such. I could self-certify for photography, but I also self-select not to. There are better folks than me to teach it. On the other hand, I've got no qualms teaching S&R if somebody asked me to: There was a 4-5 year period when my real job (marine biology) required doing S&R 2-3 times a month.

I'm mostly a fan of the proposed PADI changes, though it's a little odd. I think the instructor really should be dry suit instructor rated before taking students out in dry suits. The odd one is the requirement that assistants be dry suit diver (not instructor, obviously) rated. The way it's written, I could teach a dry suit class but couldn't assist with one.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

Apparently PADI has changed some requirements for teaching the specialty, I was wondering if it was linked to this event




Picture from Gareth Lock FB post

Link

There's more, and this one is almost certainly linked to the case. Standards will (or now do) specifically state the following:

"Dry suits must have a dedicated low-pressure inflator hose from the regulator, or an inflation system specifically for the dry suit."

I have to be honest: How anybody that's ever dived a dry suit thinks that they can get away without one is beyond me. There is no standard that says the secondary second stage must be attached to the first stage. Seems obvious to me, but....

Somebody asked if Snow were a dry suit instructor. I don't know. I looked up "Debra Snow" in PADI's system for instructors, and think i found the right person. IF so, it looks like she was not MSDT, but "just" OWSI. That doesn't speak to her experience necessarily. Further, it's possible to be OWSI AND a Dry Suit Instructor. I suspect it's unusual, though.

 

[stretchthepenn]

no I have not been, is it worse or better?

I went to a DUI rally; my experience was...interesting.

I and a bunch of n00bs (about eight of us all told, including Dad, Mom, 20-ish daughter, and daughter's boyfriend) were sent to a dock, where we stood in the shallows and waited for an instructor to arrive.

The instructor didn't come and didn't come and didn't come, so I got bored and switched into lecture mode. I told the others how the drysuit worked, gave them tips on how to inflate and deflate and maintain buoyancy, instructed them how to route and connect their hoses, and so on.

Finally, the instructor arrived. "Hey, welcome, add air here, let it out here, let's go dive." Splash. The group got waaaaay more out of me than they did the official leader.

So we proceed to dive. Mom couldn't control her buoyancy at all. For about five minutes, she's up, down, up and then rockets downdowndown to 60'. We all go after her. The instructor catches Mom and gets her sorted out...and then does a headcount. We're short one. Daughter is missing.

The viz is crap that day. Ohhh boy...

We beeline for the surface. Daughter is sitting at waterside, out of her drysuit. She got a suit squeeze and bailed about two minutes in, but nobody had noticed.

So yeah...it was interesting.