Ginnie Springs diver missing - Florida

[kensuf]

I will have to do some research into this: is it true, and if so, what is the motivation?

I've been told the concern is legal, basically so no one involved is called into court.

Several years ago I assisted with a recovery, it was the one AJ says no report was released on (he did wet work, I did dry work). It was a real messy deal, diver had a heart attack in a cave, another diver (an instructor with a student) that ran into the victim during the incident tried to rescue but couldn't, however he managed to save the buddy and keep his student safe as well.

A few people, including the former training director for the NACD, got on social media and said they could have saved the deceased. The deceased had over 60 minutes of mandatory deco and was 800' from the exit when he died; even if he could have been brought out, he couldn't have been revived before dying from explosive DCS.

About a year after that incident, the coroners report came out and said there was no way the victim would have survived the coronary.

Now put your shoes in the guy that tried to rescue someone in a cave and couldn't, only to be victimized by a bunch of people on social media that weren't even there.

 

[PfcAJ]

I've been told the concern is legal, basically so no one involved is called into court.

Several years ago I assisted with a recovery, it was the one AJ says no report was released on (he did wet work, I did dry work). It was a real messy deal, diver had a heart attack in a cave, another diver (an instructor with a student) that ran into the victim during the incident tried to rescue but couldn't, however he managed to save the buddy and keep his student safe as well.

A few people, including the former training director for the NACD, got on social media and said they could have saved the deceased. The deceased had over 60 minutes of mandatory deco and was 800' from the exit when he died; even if he could have been brought out, he couldn't have been revived before dying from explosive DCS.

About a year after that incident, the coroners report came out and said there was no way the victim would have survived the coronary.

Now put your shoes in the guy that tried to rescue someone in a cave and couldn't, only to be victimized by a bunch of people on social media that weren't even there.

Can confirm again.

The whole thing was a **** sandwich.

 

[tmassey]

Ugh. There’s no good there.

That’s the downside to speculation — and, to cave-diver-sized egos.

Honestly, though, how does suppressing the report make that situation *better*? I see how it saves embarrassment to highly-visible people, but if they run their mouths, shouldn’t they be embarrassed? It’s better than the embarrassment — and worse — that the rescuer endured...

It’s crap like that that makes me uncomfortable to identify as a cave diver...

 

[PfcAJ]

Ugh. There’s no good there.

That’s the downside to speculation — and, to cave-diver-sized egos.

Honestly, though, how does suppressing the report make that situation *better*? I see how it embarrasses highly-visible people, but if they run their mouths, shouldn’t they be embarrassed? It’s better than the embarrassment — and worse — that the rescuer endured...

It’s crap like that that makes me uncomfortable to identify as a cave diver...

There’s also a very dangerous “there’s nothing to learn from x accident” idea that pops up every now and again. You wanna talk about something toxic? That’s toxic.

 

[tmassey]

There’s also a very dangerous “there’s nothing to learn from x accident” idea that pops up every now and again. You wanna talk about something toxic? That’s toxic.

Yeah.

Even if they’re *all* heart attacks, there’s still things to learn. Like maybe a medical exam should be involved at some point... Pilots have to have regular medical clearance... Even drivers licenses require periodic eye exams...

Root cause analysis and human factor analysis are never wasted. Even if it’s the same as the last few times, it tells you that what you’re doing right now is not working, and gives you the evidence to push needed change.

Of course, those with a vested interest in the status quo (or even simply a resistance to change) won’t want that...

ETA: Or it might show that things, while are not perfect, are good *enough* to not warrant significant changes. But without the analysis, how do you actually know?

 

[tbone1004]

Please make sure we're talking about the right Ken.

But seriously, I don't think Ken Hill is involved anymore.

He's still listed as director on the website...

Can confirm.

I don’t like it, I think it’s wrong, BUT I will continue to participate as requested because I can do the job and for whatever reason this stuff effects me a bit less than other people.

@tmassey there it is and several follow up posts from someone who is involved and has been silenced. The reasons that I have heard are ********, not a single argument holds water, it's all to sweep under the rug.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I've been told the concern is legal, basically so no one involved is called into court.

Several years ago I assisted with a recovery, it was the one AJ says no report was released on (he did wet work, I did dry work). It was a real messy deal, diver had a heart attack in a cave, another diver (an instructor with a student) that ran into the victim during the incident tried to rescue but couldn't, however he managed to save the buddy and keep his student safe as well.

A few people, including the former training director for the NACD, got on social media and said they could have saved the deceased. The deceased had over 60 minutes of mandatory deco and was 800' from the exit when he died; even if he could have been brought out, he couldn't have been revived before dying from explosive DCS.

About a year after that incident, the coroners report came out and said there was no way the victim would have survived the coronary.

Now put your shoes in the guy that tried to rescue someone in a cave and couldn't, only to be victimized by a bunch of people on social media that weren't even there.

Yeah, that became a total sh*tshow, it was realky sad to hear armchair quarterbacks attacking someone for truly heroic efforts.

 

[attack33]

https://www.wcjb.com/2021/01/25/update-missing-ginnie-springs-diver-found-dead/

 

[The Chairman]

A few people, including the former training director for the NACD, got on social media and said they could have saved the deceased.

Not here, but on Facebook. There is no way to control crud like that on Facebook, but there is here.

 

[The Chairman]

Now put your shoes in the guy that tried to rescue someone in a cave and couldn't, only to be victimized by a bunch of people on social media that weren't even there.

I had to come back to this. There is nothing to prevent discussion about accidents anywhere. When no truth is proffered, the lies, the myths, and the innuendos win. Unfortunately. these untruths often bypass social media and get whispered around the springs. I know several instructors who have horrible, albeit inaccurate, stories circulating about them all the time. Getting the truth in writing on a forum is essential in order to even start to battle the miasma of crap that's out there. After all, Google favors ScubaBoard, even above Facebook when it comes to people searching the interwebs for the truth. Staying silent is a win for the nattering nabobs of negativism.