Geting Paid to Dive in Cozumel

[scubawife]

Like I said, to each his own...

You mentioned that dive masters have the choice of how they will have their medical paid. Does this mean they all HAVE medical? I had thought some were doing without medical but maybe I misunderstood. Would be good to know they all had it.

There are a lot of legally employed people in the US who don't have medical coverage. Do you ask everyone you do business with here if they provide their employees with subsidized insurance, or if all their employees are insured?

If a DM in the US, Mexico or anywhere does or doesn't have medical insurance, how does that change the quality of the service they provide you? Do you also want shops to start asking every American who comes to Cozumel to dive if they have medical coverage? I'll bet you that will keep a lot of divers out of the water.

I personally don't understand why any diver wouldn't have dive accident insurance, whether DAN or other. With the money we spend on gear and travel, it's a pittance. But I do know several people who don't have primary medical coverage for a variety of reasons. That's their business.

I have been with dive ops in various destinations who do want a copy of your dive accident insurance card before you dive with them. CYA I suppose. If you have an accident, they want to know you are covered. I suppose if you aren't it could be a liability to them? Not sure. If THEY have an accident, whether or not they're insured is their problem. The only way I'd worry about it is if they could someone make me liable for it, which I don't think they can. Even if a dm goes after a diver who's too deep, it is still the dm's choice to do so, so I don't think they or the shop could come after that diver for anything.

 

[cruiser]

Agreed 100% but you speak about South Africa in the present tense and so I hope you are aware that Apartheid ended almost a decade ago.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Yes, just used it as an example (albeit outdated).

 

[scubawife]

I think he means that DMs can agree to work under legal conditions with coverage but less take home, or agree to work for more cash and less coverage illegally as we saw recently. I prefer the legal and insured route rather than donations later, but I still feel our view is rather distant. We really cannot reasonably check on compliance of the dive Ops, hotels, cafes, taxis, buses, tour Ops, etc.

I think the terms "legal" and "illegal" are being stretched in this thread. A shop can be a legal business - have all their papers in order for doing business, have their boats properly registered, etc., and choose to pay DMs and instructors as independent contractors rather than full-time or part-time employees. That employment arrangement isn't illegal, it just means the employee isn't getting certain benefits.

In the US there are a lot of companies that hire contractors instead of taking people on as staff. Not much different really then this scenario. The contractor is paid a fee and they're responsible for declaring it, paying taxes, etc. If they don't, it's no liability to their client. The client paid them and has a record of it, but since they are a contractor not an employee, the client isn't responsible for all the deductions. I know people who've been a contractor with the same company for 10 yrs. I also know people who's employers laid them off as f/t employees then hired them back as contractors a few months later. It's business and every business can decide what's best for them. Choosing to have contractors instead of employees doesn't make a business illegal or any less legitimate.

 

[DandyDon]

I don't think that Dave was self serving with this thread. Many have asked about the situation and he was kind to explain it. Of course he will be proud of his business and mention that he is in full compliance. And this explains why I use the term illegal...

Almost all dive masters/instructors are treated as independent contractors. Some shops pay them cash or under the table and those are not able to get Social Security even if they want to. The other shops pay them formerly with checks or cash and require facturas (reciepts) from them. Those are legal and may contribute what is a small amount towards their own social security and other government taxes.

 

[Dave Dillehay]

Dear Scuba Wife,

At least in Mexico it IS illegal to pay people with un reported income, either independent contractors (in the US you get 1099 forms) or direct employees without the government's ability to receive taxes and make social security payments. Just like the US, these taxes pay for social services as well as fixing pot holes in the streets.

This question was asked multiple times in other threads and I only responded to the inquiries. And yes, I am proud that we take care of our people and help keep the pot holes filled.


Those businesses that do not do so, are in violation of civil and criminally laws.



Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

 

[WSOPFAN]

I never knew there were shops that actually paid anyone as regular employees. I thought they all were paid cash as independent contractors. Unfortunately very few were savvy enough to save any money during high season as most just blow it away partying. I think it would be very interesting to find out what employees get paid at a shop that charges say $60 for 2 tank dives -vs- a shop that charges $90 for the same. I would guess that until now almost nobody ever thought about these things before going to Cozumel. Just curious if anyone would actually choose a shop that paid their employees well -vs- say a shop they found out pays theirs crap and keeps most of the money. I think some shops would cringe at the fact of that info getting out......

 

[firstdive2005]

I brag about the wages I pay my men. I also brag that I charge more than some and less than others. But NOONE will do a better job than my men. It is possible to pay high make money as a company and not be greedy about it. I do it, most who follow percentage of cost to gross can operate fine with out making clients pay too much. I dont advertize and my company is smokin' busy because of word of mouth.
The clients of Coz dive shops have been very faithful to their favourites. Mudslinging doesnt not promote in my books. Or I would be lathering a few shops as well as the ones I dive with. What's the point of all this crap anyway. Nothing will ever change, there will always be cash payments. The rich make it work that way!!!!!!!!!! Funny to many in Mexico I am rich. I make more than 20,000 dollars a year.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm sure that Aldora is a top notch shop, but the blanket statement really proves nothing. "You get what you pay for" is not a fact - just a catchy phrase with questionable histories.

OK, I am going to dig into the issue of getting what you pay for a little here. I have not dived in Coz for a couple of years, but the last three times I did it was with Aldora. I did it despite knowing that I could be paying less at another shop, including the three different shops I had used in prior years. I did not do it because I had some secret knowledge about they pay DMs and wanted to support that. I did it for my own selfish reasons. I will go into those reasons and then make a general observation relevant to the quote above.

1. Aldora's use of steel 120s greatly adds to my bottom time. That means much longer dives, and a much longer required surface interval between dives. That adds to the working hours of the DMs and skippers who work the dives.
2. Aldora takes me to the sites I want to dive almost any time I want to dive them. In my previous experiences, I simply could not get the operators to go to places like Barracuda, Maracaibo, Cathedral, etc. Some of these are extra long trips (OK, Barracuda is shorter), so again it is more time out of the crew's work day.
3. Aldora has excellent DMs. There are other excellent DMs on the island, but I have had some very unsatisfactory ones, too. (I had one try to lead a dive into the current once. He refused to admit it and turn the dive around until we met another group going the other direction. We turned, blew off the reef, and drifted over sand for the rest of the dive.) I assume that once a DM starts getting a reputation for quality, that DM can pretty much go anywhere. There must be some reason high quality DMs go to an operation that make them work longer, as Aldora does.
4. Aldora has some very nice extras. When the weather is not all that warm, putting on those big parkas on the way back to the pier is extremely welcome.​

And so I am willing to pay a bit extra for this service because I do feel I am getting more in return for that extra money. It is true that psychologists have have shown that people tend to set a higher value on something than it is worth if they had to pay more for it, but in this case I think that if a dive operator just hopes that customers will pay more under an illusion like that, then I think that operator will be out of business before long.

General Principle:As Lincoln said, you can fool some people all of the time, but those are not the people on whom to build a client base. I firmly believe that a company that provides service above and beyond the minimum and treats its employees such that they are proud to be part of that business and want it to succeed, then it will build a loyal customer base, a customer base willing to pay more for that superior service.

 

[DandyDon]

Yes John, I am sure that Aldora is top notch. How is that a rebuttal to...?

Originally Posted by DandyDon
I'm sure that Aldora is a top notch shop, but the blanket statement really proves nothing. "You get what you pay for" is not a fact - just a catchy phrase with questionable histories.

:silly:​

Sometimes you pay more but don't get more; sometimes you do.

 

[cvchief]

What's the point of all this crap anyway. Nothing will ever change, there will always be cash payments. The rich make it work that way!!!!!!!!!!

Of course there will be. Doesn't mean you should condone it, if you know about it. I am just saying one should try to stay legal and support those who are. If you condone untaxed cash payments, then you are agreeing to the rest of us should pick up the difference. As to nothing will ever change, that attitude sort of guarantees it doesn't it? It's self perpetuating.