I don’t think that played a roll in the spanking that Suex and Seacraft took.
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
if all had been equal it would have been the tie breaker, I'm surprised the others were looked at given that Dive Xtras is also produced in the USA, but from an engineering perspective it's not really close with the Suex and Seacraft either so it's not surprisingI don’t think that played a roll in the spanking that Suex and Seacraft took.
The Cuda X looks great because it uses batteries that I currently own, and can have a set standing by if needed. I do really like the batter stack on the Genesis as well. From an engineer's mindset, I love the idea of breaking out banks of batteries to perform diagnostics if needed, not to mention user-replaceable cells. I just wish they had an app for iPhones and support for the newer 21700 cells.
I came here for the headline because I searched "Genesis 3.1 vs. Cuda X". I'm assuming by the messages that Genesis won the Navy contract. The problem is that you can't trust a government contract as any indication of quality.
I came here for the headline because I searched "Genesis 3.1 vs. Cuda X". I'm assuming by the messages that Genesis won the Navy contract. The problem is that you can't trust a government contract as any indication of quality. Maybe back in the day, but not now. Most contracts are LPTA (Lowest Price Technically Acceptable). I don't own a DPV yet and have been researching for a possible purchase next year. The Cuda X looks great because it uses batteries that I currently own, and can have a set standing by if needed. I do really like the batter stack on the Genesis as well. From an engineer's mindset, I love the idea of breaking out banks of batteries to perform diagnostics if needed, not to mention user-replaceable cells. I just wish they had an app for iPhones and support for the newer 21700 cells.
There IS an iPhone app. This link is right there on the Logic Manuals page:
Xiaoxiang BMS
With Xiaoxiang / jiabaida BMS Smart BMS you can build simple Li-Ion or LiFePo4 battery packs. For camping, car, solar or e-bikes. iOS app for Xiaoxiang / jiabaida BMS (JBD-SP15S001 / JBD-SP05S002) allows you to monitor voltage of the cells, total capacity, charging/discharging current and...apps.apple.com
I got my Genesis going with all new batteries about 30 minutes ago and the iPhone app seems to work just fine.
The 21700 cell thing sounds cool on paper. But, I just put all brand new cells in this Genesis 2.2 - the exact cells the Logic manual calls for. I ordered 3 more than required for just in case I had any bad ones. So, 147 cells and it was $710, delivered.
That gives me 1700 W-Hr of capacity. I'm okay with not having the extra range that 21700 cells would give - especially given that (I *think*) they are a fair bit more expensive.
To be honest, I'd have way more range than I need, even with a 2.1 or 3.1 with 850 W-Hr.
$500 for a pair of Dewalt 12 Ah batteries (432 W-Hr) versus $700 for 18650s that yield 850 W-Hr.... I feel like the Cuda X is just no contest.
The Cuda X is $7000 plus $550 for 2 x 12Ah batteries and a charger.
The Genesis 3.1 is $8750, including the batteries and a charger. And it's at least 50% more range. If I were buying new and spending money in that price range, the extra $1200 for the Genesis seems like a no-brainer.
This is on top of my personal experience with my BlackTip and those Dewalt 12Ah batteries. Which is to say, they are fine in a $1500 scooter. I do NOT want Dewalt PTBs in my "big boy" scooter.
Why, you may ask? My Dewalts were purchased new, together. They have only ever been used in my BlackTip and charged on my Dewalt charger. So, they have identical usage history. And yet, I've had my BlackTip cut out on me a few times when I really needed it and was working it hard. The reason it cut out was a battery imbalance. I.e. One pack or the other dropped in voltage enough to trip an error and make the scooter cut off.
And then the problem is who is responsible for fixing something like that? Dive-X won't do anything about it because they're going to say it's a problem with the batteries, which are Dewalt's problem to solve. And obviously Dewalt has no reason to do anything about it. There's nothing wrong with either battery. They are just different enough in their manufacturing that, under a sustained high load one drops in voltage (or more likely just sags) more quickly than the other.
And for the scooters that use 4 PTBs, it just seems like you'd be even more likely to run into problems from an imbalance.
In a "big boy" scooter, I want it to have onboard battery management that is sophisticated enough to not have that problem. And also not ever be in a situation where the scooter manufacturer is able to avoid addressing a problem simply by saying "it's your batteries. You need to get new ones or deal with the battery manufacturer."
There is an app for iPhone. I use it weekly.
Your post is jam-packed with amazingly great points. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Genesis is now at the top of my list.
For the record, you did not mention Seacraft. But, while I think the Cuda X is no comparison, I think the Seacraft Future 1000 is a totally viable alternative to the Genesis 3.1. There are pros and cons to each.
I was actually looking at buying a Future 1000 when I found a too-good-to-pass-up deal on this Genesis 2.2. On paper (as I've not driven either, yet), I like the Genesis better. But, I think if I'd found a smokin' deal on a Seacraft instead, I'd have bought it and still be perfectly happy in the long run.
If you're in Maryland, well, it is a bit of a hike, but Dana Hunt, at Hunt's Dive Shop, is up in Alexandria Bay, NY, and he is a Seacraft dealer. And a TOP notch individual. If you got up there, he can probably let you demo a Seacraft.