General Vortex Incident Discussion

[shoredivr]

Ok, so it seems like because Nik is a nice guy, with competent yet different scuba techniques, the concept of cave conservation practices and rules of cave diving such as be cave dive trained, have redundancy and so on, don't apply here. Even though it's been agreed that the Piano Room is by definition a cave.

Ben McDaniels didn't seem to think the rules of cave diving or training applied to him either. That's what started this whole thread in the first place.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Ok, so it seems like because Nik is a nice guy, with competent yet different scuba techniques, the concept of cave conservation practices and rules of cave diving such as be cave dive trained, have redundancy and so on, don't apply here. Even though it's been agreed that the Piano Room is by definition a cave.

Ben McDaniels didn't seem to think the rules of cave diving or training applied to him either. That's what started this whole thread in the first place.

Yes but Ben was not friends with anybody in this discussion. That seems to be the differentiating factor.

 

[ianr33]

Yes but Ben was not friends with anybody in this discussion. That seems to be the differentiating factor.

It's who you know not what you know .................................

 

[SC_Hoaty]

If Ben had died going back and forth to the Piano room, more comparisons might be appropriate.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Yes but Ben was not friends with anybody in this discussion. That seems to be the differentiating factor.

You noticed that too did ya?

 

[shoredivr]

If Ben had died going back and forth to the Piano room, more comparisons might be appropriate.

This is the Cave diving forum, isn't it?

If the general climate of one's immediate surroundings at Vortex say that it's ok, maybe a little naughty, but ok, for numerous OW divers to just trip back to the Piano Room, it's that old slippery slope argument, you know?

Ah well, I know that cave diving rules were put in place for a reason, and I also know that I will not be going to the Piano Room in Vortex without cave training. I'm just old fashioned that way.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

This is the Cave diving forum, isn't it?

If the general climate of one's immediate surroundings at Vortex say that it's ok, maybe a little naughty, but ok, for numerous OW divers to just trip back to the Piano Room, it's that old slippery slope argument, you know?

Ah well, I know that cave diving rules were put in place for a reason, and I also know that I will not be going to the Piano Room in Vortex without cave training. I'm just old fashioned that way.

You are correct. Despite how "safe" the passage to the Piano room may be, it is still an overhead environment. I'm with you - I also will not be going there without proper training.

I just think that Nic (and others) dive within their limitations, and Ben exceeded his.

Choice and responsibility. Not Laws and Scuba Police.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I just think that Nic (and others) dive within their limitations, and Ben exceeded his.

Ben apparently did this dive several times according to his logbook and facebook. So perhaps, just because someone has not died yet, it does not mean they are diving within their limitations. It could just mean their luck has not run out yet.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Ben apparently did this dive several times according to his logbook and facebook. So perhaps, just because someone has not died yet, it does not mean they are diving within their limitations. It could just mean their luck has not run out yet.

Right.

Or not yet experienced the gear failure that they are not prepared to handle.

Can't fool yourself about your limitations, if you plan on pushing right up to those limits.