Gear setup requirements by agency

[Bob DBF]

I'm not so much referring to gear as setup. PADI standard is octopus and in an OOA you give or your buddy takes the octo.

Is this the same shop that sells you a ScubaPro reg and an Air II? It would be hard to do a octo donate, not impossible but hard, with that rig. Effectivly the same way you would have to donate with a bungeed backup. The gear setup decides how you donate.

I could see an instructor balking at a long hose, but not at say a 40" primary and bungeed backup.


Bob

 

[northernone]

Instructors can have strong opinions about equipment. If you have an instructor in mind already it's probably best to ask how flexible he is and his experience with teaching various types of equipment configurations.

As a side note. Are you doing a refresher as a certified diver or starting over with a new certifying OW course from scratch since you feel you'd like to be retrained?

Cameron

 

[PfcAJ]

I looked but there doesn't seem to be a guest instructor in my neck of the woods. I looked at TDI/SDI BN but after asking g around d I was trying there was only one local instructor and he wasn't up to much. So I decided to go with the instructor that most people suggested.

Contact a few. They’re almost all down to Travel, and there’s a decent chance that someone else from your area might have inquired already or is willing to meet somewhere for the class.

My Tech 2 instructor is from Singapore, I’m from Florida, and my tech 2 buddy was from Finland. We all met in the middle in Italy. Pretty extreme example but it shows that you can’t rule anything out for sufficiently motivated people.

 

[tom lauder]

I'm recerting after being out of the water for almost twenty years and moving continent. My knowledge is still good but my skills are obviously rusty. My previous agency is not recognised so I need to get a cert that is recognised locally so I'm doing PADI O/W from scratch partly because I know I need the in water time and partly because its easier than arguing about my previous cert with my LDS. Based on the BSAC equivalency chart that i have seen here my previous cert would have put me somewhere around PADI master diver. I fully admit it's 20 years out of date so I have no issue doing it again in an org that's recognised here.

Instructors can have strong opinions about equipment. If you have an instructor in mind already it's probably best to ask how flexible he is and his experience with teaching various types of equipment configurations.

As a side note. Are you doing a refresher as a certified diver or starting over with a new certifying OW course from scratch since you feel you'd like to be retrained?

Cameron

 

[Miyaru]

Even after 20 years, you will recognize the feeling again once underwater. Muscle memory.

There is no restriction from PADI in gear choices. If you show up with doubles, BP/W and longhose, you can do the Open Water course. The gear is within requirements. All skills can be performed with a DIR setup. Donating air in case of OOA requires learning an extra skill, receiving air in case of OOA is exactly the same.
Instructors who deny BP/W configurations and demand that you use a jacket, are usually unfamiliar with the gear.

 

[Colliam7]

PADI standard is octopus and in an OOA you give or your buddy takes the octo.

Actually, this is simply not correct. It is, however, an unfortunate and not altogether uncommon misunderstanding. There is NO 'PADI standard' such as you suggest, in this case.

1. PADI General Standards and Procedures do specify that 'standard diver equipment' includes a 'Primary regulator and alternate air source'. The term 'octopus' is not used, nor are hose lengths specified. PADI 'Standard diver equipment' can just as easily include a primary second stage on a 7' hose, and an alternate second stage on a 28" hose, with a bungee necklace, as it could include a primary second stage on a 36" hose, and an alternate second stage on a 40" hose. Or, it could include a primary second stage on a 40" hose, and an alternate second stage on a 36" hose, with a bungee necklace.

2. For air sharing in an OOA situation, PADI language does NOT specify which second stage is donated to the OOA diver. The terminology is: a) for the donor - 'Supply air to another diver using an alternate air source', and b) for the recipient - 'securing and breathing from an alternate air source supplied by a buddy'. The word 'alternate' refers to something that is an alternate the OOA diver's equipment, and is NOT restricted to the donor's 'alternate air source'. The supplied air source could be the donor's primary, the donor's alternate, a regulator from a pony bottle, etc. If I donate my primary second stage - what is in my mouth - to an OOA diver, and change to my alternate air source for my own use, I am fully compliant with all PADI standards.

I am getting my re-cert with PADI as they I have been told they have the best instructors in my new area and I know they advocate a particular stadard setup.

Now, it is not uncommon for dive shops, be they affiliated with PADI, SSI, SDI, NAUI, whatever, to teach using the approach you suggest - the donor gives their alternate air source, often on a 40" hose, to an OOA diver. That is simply a reflection of (primarily) history and habit, as well as the lack of familiarity, of some shops and instructors, with other equipment configurations. They may be the 'best instructors' in the area, but they may not have experience with alternate configurations, or the instructors may be constrained by shop practices, and available equipment So, if you are planning to pursue a configuration that would include a long hose / bungeed necklace configuration (which I advocate as a general practice), or which involves 'primary donate' as the preferred approach in an OOA situation I would look for a shop - and instructors - that would be comfortable, and familiar with, the configuration you plan to use. If a shop tells you that 'octopus and in an OOA you give or your buddy takes the octo' is a PADI standard, you may wish to reconsider whether you wish to be re-certified through them - that is not a PADI standard, even if it is a shop default.

I will use rental gear till i get my OW as its included but if I was to dive with my LDS on trips or local dives is non standard setup considered a problem?

It certainly should not be, for a competent shop. You should not have issues diving, on trips or locally, with a shop that says you cannot dive with what you describe as a DIR or Hogarthian configuration. However, if a shop were to say that such a configuration would be a problem, I would suggest you reconsider diving with them and look elsewhere.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I looked but there doesn't seem to be a guest instructor in my neck of the woods. I looked at TDI/SDI BN but after asking g around d I was trying there was only one local instructor and he wasn't up to much. So I decided to go with the instructor that most people suggested.

What AJ said, call people. When I took Fundies we had an instructor travel around 400 miles/650km to Chicago to teach us as there was no one local.

 

[tom lauder]

I hope so it doesn't feel like 20 years.

Even after 20 years, you will recognize the feeling again once underwater. Muscle memory.

There is no restriction from PADI in gear choices. If you show up with doubles, BP/W and longhose, you can do the Open Water course. The gear is within requirements. All skills can be performed with a DIR setup. Donating air in case of OOA requires learning an extra skill, receiving air in case of OOA is exactly the same.
Instructors who deny BP/W configurations and demand that you use a jacket, are usually unfamiliar with the gear.

 

[tom lauder]

Thanks, this is the reassurance I was looking for. Good to know that if I have an instructor with an issue about setup it's their issue not the orgs.

Actually, this is simply not correct. It is, however, an unfortunate and not altogether uncommon misunderstanding. There is NO 'PADI standard' such as you suggest, in this case.

1. PADI General Standards and Procedures do specify that 'standard diver equipment' includes a 'Primary regulator and alternate air source'. The term 'octopus' is not used, nor are hose lengths specified. PADI 'Standard diver equipment' can just as easily include a primary second stage on a 7' hose, and an alternate second stage on a 28" hose, with a bungee necklace, as it could include a primary second stage on a 36" hose, and an alternate second stage on a 40" hose. Or, it could include a primary second stage on a 40" hose, and an alternate second stage on a 36" hose, with a bungee necklace.

2. For air sharing in an OOA situation, PADI language does NOT specify which second stage is donated to the OOA diver. The terminology is: a) for the donor - 'Supply air to another diver using an alternate air source', and b) for the recipient - 'securing and breathing from an alternate air source supplied by a buddy'. The word 'alternate' refers to something that is an alternate the OOA diver's equipment, and is NOT restricted to the donor's 'alternate air source'. The supplied air source could be the donor's primary, the donor's alternate, a regulator from a pony bottle, etc. If I donate my primary second stage - what is in my mouth - to an OOA diver, and change to my alternate air source for my own use, I am fully compliant with all PADI standards.Now, it is not uncommon for dive shops, be they affiliated with PADI, SSI, SDI, NAUI, whatever, to teach using the approach you suggest - the donor gives their alternate air source, often on a 40" hose, to an OOA diver. That is simply a reflection of (primarily) history and habit, as well as the lack of familiarity, of some shops and instructors, with other equipment configurations. They may be the 'best instructors' in the area, but they may not have experience with alternate configurations, or the instructors may be constrained by shop practices, and available equipment So, if you are planning to pursue a configuration that would include a long hose / bungeed necklace configuration (which I advocate as a general practice), or which involves 'primary donate' as the preferred approach in an OOA situation I would look for a shop - and instructors - that would be comfortable, and familiar with, the configuration you plan to use. If a shop tells you that 'octopus and in an OOA you give or your buddy takes the octo' is a PADI standard, you may wish to reconsider whether you wish to be re-certified through them - that is not a PADI standard, even if it is a shop default.It certainly should not be, for a competent shop. You should not have issues diving, on trips or locally, with a shop that says you cannot dive with what you describe as a DIR or Hogarthian configuration. However, if a shop were to say that such a configuration would be a problem, I would suggest you reconsider diving with them and look elsewhere.

 

[tom lauder]

I would like to get a season of local diving under my fins before I explore this but Its on my to do list for sure.

What AJ said, call people. When I took Fundies we had an instructor travel around 400 miles/650km to Chicago to teach us as there was no one local.