Gear config, Long primary

[Epinephelus]

The 7ft hose in open water thingy came about when divers bent on standardization of equipment moved a cave rig to open water, and wanted to come up with some excuse other than standardization of equipment to justify it. And so they dreamed up scenarios where a 7 ft hose might be nice and made them "reasons."
I find no significant disadvantage to using a 7 ft hose in open water, and I do so often. But I feel the "standard" rig (28-30" primary, 42" octo) is just as safe, and actually prefer that rig in open water.
There is a lot to be said for standardization itself, however, and if you and your buddies want to standardize on the 7 ft hose there's surely no harm in it. And if you put caving into your diving mix, you will be using the 7 ft hose there... may as well keep it for all your diving.
But the open water "reasons" beyond standardization for diving a 7 footer are greatly overblown.
E.

 

[WJL]

His argument, which I didn't read on the thread about disadvantages to DIR, is that in an ooa situation he wouldn't want a nervous or panicing diver on the end of a 7' hose but rather right up close where he could have a firm hold on his jacket. I can see where this is also not ideal but between the two it "seems" better than far off.

Jeff,

Sharing air with a short hose obviously can be done, especially in OW, but the extra space between the divers when sharing air with a long hose makes life much easier. Part of the issue here is that, as you have probably heard ad nauseam, DIR is more than just the equipment. An air-share is one place where you will see this come into play.

One of the "rules" of DIR is that you must always maintain neutral buoyancy. A corrollary of this rule is that you are responsible for your own buoyancy. In a "typical" air-share (i.e., one where the donee is conscious) this means that the donor is NOT going to be grabbing the donee's rig, and is NOT going to to take over control of the donee's buoyancy. The donee did not forget how to dive, he or she just ran out of air. The donee is going to continue to manage his or her own buoyancy.

The biggest part of the way you control your buoyancy is by maintaining horizontal trim. Just because somebody is low on air doesn't give the team a reason to go into a vertical position and grab onto each other. Doing so will make it harder to control buoyancy for both the donor and the donee.

Together you solve the problem - by getting some air to the team member who needs it - then you deal with the situation. Doing an air-share with a long hose helps the donor and donee maintain horizontal trim and neutral buoyancy, by giving both divers room to manuever a little while being tied together by the hose. You are free to do anything you need to do, and to swim in any direction. If you can go straight up, then that's what you do. If you need to swim somewhere, that's what you do. In every case, having the long hose helps the team to maintain horizontal trim and neutral buoyancy whether in a cave, a wreck, or in open water.

 

[Potapko]

Doc Intrepid,
thanks for that insight. I can also understand better why this recreational instructor has a particular anti-DIR attitude. With the typical dive-shop-mill we find here in the Czech Republic he probably has had more than one panicked diver on his hands underwater. What I mean by that is there is not enough time spent in the pool before heading to the open quarry with bad vis. As i posted elsewhere I was in the pool only 3 hours total for my OWD course. Followed by four dives in a quarry totaling less than 1.5 hours.

You adressed the one point very well. My second was the lack of free head movement while using the 7' hose. I believe it was addressed as well in another post dealing with the way i had it routed. I will have to do some more practice with it and perhaps also get a swivel to use on the reg.

DP,

You've asked about the logic behind using a long hose, commonly useful in overhead diving, for standard recreational diving. Most of the responses have focused on the effectiveness of the hose. Your buddy whom you quote above also noted that he wouldn't want a nervous or panicked diver on the end of a long hose, but would prefer a short hose to bring the diver in closer.

I think we're missing something important, that you alluded to in the first sentence of your partial quote above.

The fact is that you don't want a panicked diver with you underwater, regardless of the length of your hose.

The "DIR only dive with DIR" issue you alluded to above is more important than - and certainly significant to a discussion of - the length of your hose. If you prefer not to dwell on "DIR", then rephrase your statement something like "...experienced, competent, safe divers ought to make it their policy to only dive with partners who are equally experienced, competent, and safe".

The point is simple: if the diver on the other end of your hose is experienced, competent and safe, then having a 7' hose allows the two of you many other options in a sudden emergency than only ascending immediately, face to face. As Soggy notes, it might be wise to traverse to the upline, even with one buddy OOA, rather than ascending immediately. You may have currents to deal with. Many issues might need to be dealt with. With a long hose swimming side by side or one ahead of the other is possible, with a short hose it is not. But the determining factor is not the hose length - its the calm, collected buddy swimming along beside you while you both are responding to the emergency.

So, a 7' hose allows two highly-trained and experienced divers to have many different response options to choose from in the event of an emergency, even in a recreational environment. A standard length hose reduces the number of options, or your ability to perform them, significantly. But even in "recreational" diving, its the caliber of your buddy who makes it possible to use the 7' hose to its greatest advantage.

If you dive with divers who panic, it does you no good at all. Recreational or technical.

The point is, you don't dive with divers who are prone to panic. That is the most important thing. Faced with a situation where its either "dive with someone who is prone to panic or don't dive", you don't dive.

Assuming your buddy is calm and collected in a stress-filled situation, then the advantages of the 7' hose in a recreational environment are numerous - as described by the other responders.

FWIW. YMMV.

 

[Robert Phillips]

I understand it is quite possible, perhaps probable that I am not doing something correctly and that is why I am asking.
I appreciate the experience from those who have "done it".

After routing the hose properly, place the reg in your mouth, turn your head to the left and make sure you have enough hose to have good range of motion and be comfortable. Stow the excess under you can light and double check your range of motion. if too much hose is sticking out with a full left head turn, just pull a little more back behind the can light. If you don't have enough, pull some hose throuogh the other way. You can do this throuoghout the dive if you have to too.
Good luck,
dive safe.
Robert

 

[Xanthro]

I don't know if you can always be assured of not encountering a panicked diver, even if you always dive with people you know never panic, unless you limit yourself to only group activities.

Suppose you are your exceedingly good buddy are on a boat, it's quite possible that the other divers won't buddy up well, and someone near you could have a OOA and swim up to you. Person isn't your buddy at all, but I'd hope everyone would share air.

I haven't been diving long, but I've already seen plenty of "buddies' that were beyond visible range, and at depth. BTW, I've seen it in other pairs, and had it happen to me when it was three people buddied up.

I'm just saying it's always possible to have someone unconnected with your dive have an emergency where you need to help out.

Xanthro

 

[minnediver]

I wear my DIR rig no matter what diving I am doing. I have found it to be the most comfortable and easiest system out there. I find the 7 ft hose simply allows for some more room and options in open water than the short hoses.
As for teaching open water students in the 7 ft hose. According to PADI there is no standards violations if you have students in the DIR rig with 7 ft hose. All you have to do is take off the snorkels at the float/flag before you start the dive.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I use a 7 in OW. The only negatives that I have noticed are the snickers that I sometimes get from the peanut gallery and the occasional "Oh, rats!" feeling I get when I drop my second stage on the floor of the boat.

But...

Its not the length of the primary that matters so much as donating the reg that's in your mouth while having a quality backup under your chin that you KNOW works.

A 7, if routed correctly, WILL be comfortable. It will give you added length that in the event of a 'share and swim' will make things a little easier.

But you can certainly 'share and swim' on a shorter hose.

Here's a DIR open water rig with a primary that's closer to the standard length...

http://www.wkpp.org/images/pina_equip/OW_rig2_r.jpeg

 

[Diver0001]

I wear my DIR rig no matter what diving I am doing. I have found it to be the most comfortable and easiest system out there. I find the 7 ft hose simply allows for some more room and options in open water than the short hoses.
As for teaching open water students in the 7 ft hose. According to PADI there is no standards violations if you have students in the DIR rig with 7 ft hose. All you have to do is take off the snorkels at the float/flag before you start the dive.

There is nothing in the PADI standards that says you need to have the snorkel on your mask at all times. I have to use a snorkel when I'm assisting with courses but it gets stowed before I descend. It's actually not a good idea to combine wearing a snorkel with a 7ft hose. The snorkel can really get in the way when it counts and that sucks. I know from experience.

R..

 

[CALI68]

Here is a shot of the Rig:

http://www.baue.org/images/galleries/view_photo.php?set_albumName=equipment&id=diverfront

It looks like he's wearing a 5' Primary Hose. I could be wrong though.

 

[mer]

Here is a shot of the Rig:

http://www.baue.org/images/galleries/view_photo.php?set_albumName=equipment&id=diverfront

It looks like he's wearing a 5' Primary Hose. I could be wrong though.

Nope that's a 7'er. You can see that it's tucked under the light can, with a 5'er it cuts under the right arm, especially with someone that tall.