Future of DiveShops?

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I disagree with quickly running out, there are more people and a smaller percentage taking training now than even 20 years ago....
I said the industry is quickly running out of potential customers/those people that need training to begin with. No new customers coming in.

---------- Post added November 16th, 2014 at 03:27 PM ----------

well done dive trips you aren't paying a travel agent, you are paying for an experienced guide, educator, entertainer and more.

Well, I don't need a guide, or a teacher, and I'll take care of the entertainment myself, thanks. There is no benefit that I can see to paying to have someone set up the travel/hotel/dive operator/dive sites on the other end that I cannot easily do myself with a quick email or call.
 
OK. I said "industry marketing arm" etc, not knowing whoever was the group doing that kind of work for them. I still think all of the PADI, etc teaching agencies should either help out DEMA then or join on their own and push the advertising and marketing. If not, they are very short-sighted. They are quickly running out of people that want/need training, as I see it.

Former EVP of Client Services here, with a question for the Creative Director:

Q: How many Creative Directors does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Two. One to rent the Ferarri for the photo shoot... and one to ask why the account team can't change the lightbulb.

:D

But seriously, the problem with industry advertising done by any individual constituency is that it doesn't make sense for them to do it in category that requires "market building." Why? Even a super effective campaign - that gets people's attention, touches them emotionally, and gets them to take action - can really only do one thing: drive people to seek information at a shop or on the web. Unfortunately, because the targets would be non-divers, they will either go to the shop nearest their home/office or google "scuba diving" and be directed to a shop nearby. Accordingly, there's really no way for PADI to make sure those people don't end up at a NAUI or SSI or SDI or etc shop, or for ScubaPro to make sure that people don't end up at an AquaLung or Sherwood or Mares or etc dealer.

Sure - and you know this better than anyone - people can try to get the audience to remember more than one thing after seeing the ad. (Both "try scuba diving" and "go to a PADI shop.) However, the truth is that you'd be hard pressed to squeeze in PADI or ScubaPro specificity into the ad and/or the call to action. Imagine the creative brief: "The main thing we need the campaign to do is make people aware of scuba diving... and get them to self-identify... and then share the seven RTBs listed below for why scuba diving is wonderful... and don't forget we need to overcome the underlying fear issue... and we should also dispel the myth that scuba diving is expensive... and that it's easy for any age... and be sure to appeal females as well... and in fact let's have a whole family... and then let's have a dual call-to-action of "visit a shop" combined with a strong drive-to-web component. After we do all that, keep in mind that we really need to hammer home the PADI thing. Must work in "The Way The Word Learns to Dive" as well as "Learn to Dive Today" and can we also differentiate PADI from key competitive agencies, supported by the six RTBs in the "PADI mandatories" subsection below? And that's really it. Oh, yeah... and I got an email from the client this morning. Can we make the logo bigger?"

:D
 
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sure, discount it, that will work, after all it isn't like dive training and equipment is not already at a lower cost than it has ever been. But that aside, they are paying more for single textbooks than getting certified, that is not the problem.

Needn't be by much, and I know training is already pretty cheap. I was suggesting it as a hook to wrangle your way into marketing on campus or at least in that department.

A lot of people have almost no travel experience outside the U.S., and don't know what they don't know. These people are apt to go with the group the 1st time or 3. In that time, if they make friends in the group and gain extra enjoyment from traveling with them, you get a group of friends who may continue to do trips with the shop.

My 1st 4 trips to Bonaire were with a group; the last 4 were not, even though I liked the group. If I were going to the Philippines, I'd consider a group trip or travel agent. Too many unknowns too far away in too strange a place for me.

Richard.
 
I didn't care for the shop down the freeway just because of some of little miss sales lady's tactics, diverting people's eyes away from the price tags with her cleavage, which men should find demeaning. It implies we are all nothing but a bunch of horny neandrothols making buying decisions with our second brain.

As they say in sales, go with what works. Could be this is what the SCUBA industry needs to gain market share, the old bait and switch.



As for our LDS, I think Scott will make it work because he was always the one that made it work for me, and for others from what I've heard.



Bob
-----------------
I may be old , but I'm not dead yet.
 
I would never ever pay a dive shop to set up a trip somewhere for me, when I can certainly do it cheaper myself online, and avoid the middle man. Remember "travel agents?" They're all living under a bridge somewhere now, homeless.

Note: you don't pay travel agents. They get paid commission from the airlines, hotels, etc. And they can get the same - and often better - rates that you can. I've booked many trips - solo, family, groups - and the dive travel agent I've used always gets at least the same prices I've found if not better. Plus they can usually negotiate upgrades and add-ons based on the volume they do that I could never touch. Plus, if something goes wrong I've got someone with a vested interest in taking MY SIDE in the handling of the issue. I've been treated like a VIP all over the world because of the travel agent that booked my trip. Dive resorts know and like them... and don't want to risk p***ing them off.

---------- Post added November 16th, 2014 at 07:43 PM ----------

And if you market with that image, will teens and single young adults want to get into an activity marketed for Mom, Pop & kids?

Richard.

What about alienating married men? My buddy and I go on several trips a year... specifically to GET AWAY from wives and kids!

:cool2:

I think one of the big issues that marketing scuba as "a family activity" is that you've just multiplied the price of entry by 3x or 4x in the mind of the potential target. Plus you risk losing the one or two members of the family you could have gotten because the family decides that since "diving is a family activity" it's an all-or-none proposition... so they all go skiing instead.
 
Um, I used to be in other lines of work. And you've owned how many successful businesses?

None. But I have gone into a few businesses that just left me disappointed due to poor inventory, uncompetetively high prices, poor service, and even BS sales pitches. Unfortunately, many of them were dive shops.


Oh, BTW, a serious compressor, installed with banks and a fill panel runs in the area of $35k, maybe a bit more. Your mileage may vary but we use serious gear.

Thanks, I was figuring $40K. And I'm figuring that cost should be amortized over a period of at least 20 years, maybe even twice that. Since we are only talking a couple thousand a year, it probably does not matter too much.

How about the distribution of gas consumers in the shop?? I'm thinking 15% to customer tanks, 15% free to key personnel, 40% to training, 20% to rentals, and 5% to tech service. And then, the total number of fills (or fill equivalents) with a "fill" equal to about 60 cu ft? I'd guess a small but reasonably busy shop is doing 5 to 10 thousand fills a year. Bigger shops maybe twice that and the smaller shops maybe half that or less. What do you think?

I also took a quick look at filtration costs and get the impression, with a good clean air source, filters run around $250 for about 100,000 cu ft. Sound right?
 
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I would never ever pay a dive shop to set up a trip somewhere for me, when I can certainly do it cheaper myself online, and avoid the middle man. Remember "travel agents?" They're all living under a bridge somewhere now, homeless.

Interestingly, in Asia organising dive trips is a big part of what dive shops do. Get enough people together and you can negotiate better deals, charter flights to remote locations, make arrangements for special gear. I tend to look on this service as one of the better value add for regional dive shops.


Not sure that model works as well in the U.S., but just sayin'.
 
I've said it before on here, I'd rather dive with clubs (group of people, elected officials ect.) than a LDS 'club' any day and I hope to see more clubs spring up in the future.

Walked in to my LDS recently, turns out they don't sell finger spools.
 
None. But I have gone into a few businesses that just left me disappointed due to poor inventory, uncompetetively high prices, poor service, and even BS sales pitches. Unfortunately, many of them were dive shops.




Thanks, I was figuring $40K. And I'm figuring that cost should be amortized over a period of at least 20 years, maybe even twice that. Since we are only talking a couple thousand a year, it probably does not matter too much.

How about the distribution of gas consumers in the shop?? I'm thinking 15% to customer tanks, 15% free to key personnel, 40% to training, 20% to rentals, and 5% to tech service. And then, the total number of fills (or fill equivalents) with a "fill" equal to about 60 cu ft? I'd guess a small but reasonably busy shop is doing 5 to 10 thousand fills a year. Bigger shops maybe twice that and the smaller shops maybe half that or less. What do you think?

I also took a quick look at filtration costs and get the impression, with a good clean air source, filters run around $250 for about 100,000 cu ft. Sound right?

There are poorly run businesses in every market segment that exists. There are also those that are well run and, by that virtue, successful. I won't argue there are many poorly run dive shops but I also like cars and guns. There are several businesses in those segments where I wom't spend my money; by the same token, there are a few where I spend more money than I might elsewhere but I know I can trust and depend on them.

In the real business world, amortization generally refers to the "writing off" or debt retirement of intangible assets (think intellectual property) while tangible assets (capital investments) are depreciated, often in a schedule determined by our excellent business mentors, the federal government. I'd have to ask our accountants for sure but a common depreciation schedule for mechanical equipment normally runs about seven years. Keep in mind that I'm talking about actual business reporting here (which is critical in maintaining things like income statements, balance sheets, accountant's compilation reports, etc.) and even more critical in determining costs and profit margins. It's not as simple as, "I figure I can make this thing work for 30 years." That's a hobby, not a business. And don't get me started on "write offs." Real money v. fake money in my book and a write off sure as hell doesn't, as many people think, make something free.

And I will admit that I don't factor down to filter costs per cubic foot of air because those numbers are included in cost codes that are, for my purposes, a combination of variables. Should the percentages--and I focus on monthly income statements and their percentages, not necessarily dollars--seem out of whack, we can drill down to determine if that .0025 cents (your number) worth of filtration per foot is creating a measurable and negative impact on the bottom line...that's worth the time to address. It's not, by the way. If all I did was run massive compressors and banks of air, I'd be laser-focused on those numbers but I really don't know of any Google server farm-types of fill stations.

Oh crap, I'll just give it up. The entire secret to being successful in business (keeping the customers happy, being efficient, idea generation and simply getting the job done) is people. That's what we really lack in the scuba businees and, in fact, all businesses, that can't be done in any other way. I'm willing to bet that even someone as obviously jaded as you could be satisfied by the right combination of physical plant, environment and personnel.

I'll make you the same offer I make everyone, and it's completely transparent. If you want to see what we do, start your own business or, maybe, improve on one you own, come visit us. I'll give you everything we have pertaining to operations, marketing, accounting or just about anything else we do and work with you to help build your business...if that's truly what you want to do. I'm working with an amazing group of people to change perceptions, expose new people to diving, train them safely and, finally, help them fall in love with one of the things we all have in common--and some of us still love.

If the glass is half empty, we intend to fill it up.

And no, the manufacturers and DEMA don't get it. You can ask them how tired they are of hearing me talk about effective national and international marketing, training and measuring the effectiveness of those efforts.

I'm far from the smartest guy in most of the meetings I attend but let me leave you with this: waste some time watching teevee commercials and count the number of types of businesses who feature even a short vignette of scuba diving in their ads. They're not dive shops or even scuba-related businesses but, instead, auto makers, banks, RV industry marketing groups, hotels and assorted others...all of whom pay big bucks to ad agencies to capture the interest of consumers. Those agencies don't simply pull that stuff out of thin air, they research, survey, test and conduct focus groups to discover what interests people. They've already done the hard work, we just need to capitalize on their work product.

Damn. I'm tired. Soapbox slid back under the couch.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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