Full DIY Gear

[RockPile]

Oh, I'm not holding my breath. You should just know that after you show us a beaut like the Sea Lung, yours definitely can't be housed in a tin can, if you know what I mean...

JB

 

[FatRob]

Yeah, I get that it's possible. I've seen strange things too.

Wings I can see, definitely, even though still I don't think it's advisable. Not a regulator though. Talk about an idiotic way for a very talented machinist to die.

JB

Well RockPile... I'm suprised that you trust the (possibly) talented designer and machinists that made your regs... how do you think these things are made... or did you think that the dive gear manufacturers are in leauge with a higher power?

As for a bladder, check out how diverite fits the inflator hose to their bladders. now cut a hole in a rubber innertube and fit one exactly the same way... BTW the rubber innertube is far less likely to rupture! it's just clamping the material between two threaded rings!!!

really even a mildly talented machinist could build a perfectly good reg, especially if they copied it... if you don't agree go look at some amateur built model steam engines and compare them to a comparitively simple scubapro mk 2.... and a downstream 2nd...

 

[RockPile]

Fatrob, again, I get that it's possible. But I notice that only one of the three people who are taking such mighty umbrage to my suggestion that it's dangerous to be espousing that the "mildly talented" can make "perfectly good reg" is actually making anything for themselves at all (very impressively too). How's your $500+ Apex working? Damn good, I bet (at least better than mine).

The question was does anyone dives totally DIY? The answer is no. I made a list of the common self-makes, the rare, and the non-existent. This was a practical answer that stands for the sake of the question.

But, because I get that it can done (and is done just a smidge more than I originally suspected), I welcome pictures of your homemade reg too. In fact, I'm looking forward to them.

As for me, should I disappear into the depths with a failed reg, I want my family to be telling stories about how they spent the settlement, not about how I built my own regulator like an idiot and how sick of SPAM they are.

You can certainly be of the opinion that a reg is easily built but you can't preach (a higher power, really???) about it without posting pictures of the one you built.

JB

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

WRT the DIY BC/Bladder, I personally think a modified car inner tube could work just fine, but if you want to take it a step further research 'weldable' plastic sheeting, cut out your design, and get an industry shop to RF weld it. (Can be done with heat welding, but RF is better) Not that uncommon. Then sew up your cover for it.

I've actually thought of doing this to reproduce an out-of-production wing.

WRT 'totally' DIY, yes, I know of one guy who ocassionally dives a rig I would call totally DIY. I believe that the only thing he purchased outright is his wetsuit. Here's a hint: the simplest O2 RB does not require a regulator.

Note that I'm not saying it would be cheaper or better or safer than buying one. Just that it's possible, and being done.

 

[FatRob]

Fatrob, again, I get that it's possible. But I notice that only one of the three people who are taking such mighty umbrage to my suggestion that it's dangerous to be espousing that the "mildly talented" can make "perfectly good reg" is actually making anything for themselves at all (very impressively too). How's your $500+ Apex working? Damn good, I bet (at least better than mine).

<chop>

You can certainly be of the opinion that a reg is easily built but you can't preach (a higher power, really???) about it without posting pictures of the one you built.

JB

Lets see, so far i have made and use the following dive gear....

-1 single tank adapter, including stainless steel mounting hardware (sex bolts)
-1 weight and trim systems including casting all my own weights (50lbs of it)
-2 tank bands, which i no longer use for personal preference reasons but did do 5 dives on
-1 compass boot
-1 housing for a uwatec timer
-1 depth simulator chamber for testing gauges etc...
-2 mods to existing boots for uwatec BT
-1 Halogen MR11 self contained dive light
-1 IP gauge
-4 plate weights for my backplate

In addition I service my own regs..... have a read of the apeks service manual sometime if you want to see why they work so well, and how easy the service is... hence why I dive them... ($500!! You've been paying retail again haven't you!) but I also have scubapro mk 10 and conshelf 21 regs. And yes my apeks does breathe real nice.. but the point is someone had to make it so it can and is being done all of the time!

Current diving projects....

-DUI weight and trim copy - pattern done, 1 pocket just about done..
-Dive flag and buoy... have parts waiting on time..
-modifications to the bulb holder for the light above in progress at iteration #3
-conversion of steel 1800lb tank to shop air tank.. need valve, hydro and vip
-rebuild of sherwood second stage, incl addition of heat exchanger on inlet, in progress
-rebuild of conshelf 21 1st stage to solve creeping IP issue
- upgrade of ATX40 to ATX50 - drawings done for existing part, need to design adjuster and spec materials.
-service of conshelf 21 second...

New Diving Projects...

-Apparently I need to build a regulator...
-Apparently I need to Build a Wing
-Lead integrated Fiberglass backplate..
-Canister light and light head assy (MR16)
-I should probably also build a small Dive tank... Actually that's not as hard as it sounds, it could be machined from solid without too much difficulty! It would not be cost effective to do this though! better to follow in cousteau's footsteps and utilise existing cylinders....
-Dive computer / datalogger / instrumentation console

So as you can see you may be in for a long wait especially since my lathe is consumed with other projects for work and my other hobbies at the moment!!... though I did just talk about doing a second stage from PVC pipe yesterday afternoon with a buddy... if I get a free weekend maybe I will.... Not that i would probably dive it too often...

BTW if you want a scare check out the $100 rebreather thread!

I do agree that if you are making your own gear, you need to be fully informed and aware of what you are doing... and not completely oblivious to the laws of nature and engineering!

 

[RockPile]

FatRob,

That is an amazing work list. Is this list integrated with your wife's list of things for you to be doing or is it a secret list? Well, I'm impressed, not necessarily with the difficulty of your projects but more with the quantity of them. The light can is a fun one. And I'm currently rebuilding a Conshelf XIV myself. And I do all the cams straps and little things like that too. Not quite on your level, though.

I'm letting the regulator argument go for now because it seems you get the real thrust of what I'm say (per your last paragraph). I would hate to think some idiot kid tried to do it because he read that it wasn't that hard to do.

The only thing I think you might still be a little off on is the wing. Two of you, now, have said that rubber inner tubes would be either adequate or even better than current construction methods by manufactures. I find this very hard to believe. If that were the case, why the heck aren't they? It would certainly be a cheaper way of producing a wing.

I wonder if Tobin of DSS might weigh in on this. I'll PM him if I can remember his moniker. And who knows, perhaps I'm wrong.

JB

JB

 

[cool_hardware52]

BTW the rubber innertube is far less likely to rupture!

Less likely than what?

What type of "rupture" are you referring to specificially?


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

WRT the DIY BC/Bladder, I personally think a modified car inner tube could work just fine,

The butyl rubber used in car or bike inner tubes is used because it offer very good impermeablity to high pressure air. Car and truck tires might see pressure differentials of as much as 100 psi or more. This material is a thermoset rubber. It is subject to degradation from Ozone, UV attack, is more easily torn than Urethane and is less abrasion resistant. BC bladders do not need to be as impermiable as they see very low differential pressures, but ease of welding, good ozone resistance, resistance to UV exposure, high resistance to tearing and abrasion are worthwhile in the application.

but if you want to take it a step further research 'weldable' plastic sheeting, cut out your design, and get an industry shop to RF weld it. (Can be done with heat welding, but RF is better) Not that uncommon. Then sew up your cover for it.

1. You need a welding die exactly the shape you wanted to produce. You can buy a very nice complete wing for less than the cost of one welding die. BTW usually you cut out the bladder after you weld it

2. Setting up a RF machine is a tedious "cut and try" process. Platten leveling, die placement, Power, platten heat, preheat and cooling times all have to be determined by trial and error. Better buy a little extra film. You need a few more sets of material so you can test your results.

If you know of an RF welding shop that encourages customers to bring them "one off" projects I'd be surprised.


Tobin

 

[FatRob]

Less likely than what?

What type of "rupture" are you referring to specificially?


Tobin

Tobin,

i figure that with no seams to weld (obviously there is the vulcanised one to form the ring), and with a high denier cordura / ardura / keprotec outer shell, that an inner tube is less likely to rupture along a seam (since there are none) than an equivalent welded or glued bladder. So long as it is kept inside an outer sheath it occurs to me that it provides a better alternative to the DIYer than trying to deal with RF welding, or chemical welding of a seam, both notoriously difficult using non industrial equipment... as you have adequately clarified.

I suspect that the pro's use a welded fabric because it offers the following advantages:
- Flat packing
- Lighter Weight
- Better thermal stability
- higher modulus
- looks more professional
- probably safer working environment for employees... less nasty chemicals

the UV degradation is somewhat moot as a bladder is usually protected by an outer shell, but over time yes it could be an issue

I hope that that answers the questions to date....

BTW No Wife, so no issues with her list, my motorbike has a long list as does my car... then there is climbing, kayaking, skiing etc etc equipment to keep up...
Hence I have no use for a television!

 

[RockPile]

Thanks for dropping by Tobin. Very interesting posts.

Rob, well in that case, don't let your car know about the diving DIY list...

It seems to me that there might be more friction between the cordura and rubber than the cordura and urethane.

Thanks,
JB