Frog Kicks, Backwards Kicks and Hellicopter Turns : Help

[dlarbale]

All,

I tried the frog kick this weekend. Seemed to get it OK despite just using a normal BCD. I did however have sore knee joints after a few dives doing this.

I'm assuming that it's the frog kick that's causing the problems and not just the effort of walking up loads of steps with all my gear - I do this almost every weekend so shouldn't be the problem.

So has anyone else experienced knee joint pain after doing the frog kick?

Thanks - Dave.

PS// Using Apollo split fins.

 

[O-ring]

Using Apollo split fins

You will have a hard time doing any kick except a straight flutter with split fins.

With backwards kicks and helicopters...a helicopter involves doing a backward kick with one foot and a frog with the other to spin you around in the chosen direction. If you cannot get the backwards kick, your helicopter will likely be poor as well.

I can't do them, so I practice, practice, practice...oh, and then practice some more...

 

[wetman]

I too wasnt used to the frog kick motion. I have been doing it on the last 30ish odd dives much more and it certainly got better and easier over time. I dont think its a typical or natural motion for your legs so it takes a bit of getting used to.

 

[roakey]

I had frog kicked a few times before I took Cave I, which was a solid week of frog kicking.

Nowadays no matter where I'm diving the frog kick seems to be my predominant kick. It appears that this happens for ANYONE who is “forced” frog kicking for a significant amount of time -- it becomes their default kick.

Has this happened to anyone else or have you noticed it among others?

Roak

 

[O-ring]

Has this happened to anyone else or have you noticed it among others?

Yeah, I don't use a flutter much at all. Hard to kick any other way and still maintain proper trim and buoyancy and the modified flutter doesn't get me anywhere compared to a good frog.

 

[JamesK]

Originally posted by roakey


Has this happened to anyone else or have you noticed it among others?

Yep. However, I use the modified frog kick almost exclusively. I only use the frog kick if I am in a strong flow or current.

 

[metridium]

The frog has been my primary kick for years, though I've never been "forced" to use it.

I echo what o-ring said about the flutter kick.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Modified frog almost exclusively. Full frog for real power. In a narrow space maybe a shuffle. A relaxed modified frog with good trim will scoot you along at an amazing clip even in doubles and a dry suit.

 

[WreckWriter]

I never thought much of the frog kick until my trimix class when I was in the position of trying to keep up with the instructor who uses only frog kick. Quite simply, I couldn't keep up. I was flutter kicking my a$$ off, he was just gliding along.

Lots of practice is in order for me as I want to use this kick too.

Tom

 

[wb416]

First, a comment to Roakey's post: I find Frog or mod-frog my predominant kicks for the last year or so... it's very natural, relaxing, and easy!

Back Kick technique:

Unfortunately, this is the poorest of the video clips that is listed on the FifthD site and after Andrew G stepped us through how to do it properly (in our DIRF class), I mentioned that he might want to get a better video clip.

I'll attempt to describe the stroke in my own words:

1) In a re-chambered frog kick position (knees bent, fins horizontal), put the bottom of your fins together.

2) Keeping your knees in their same starting position (DON'T drop them), pivot your fins backward (bottom of fins still together). You'll be rotating down through an arc.

3) When your legs are almost straight out, rotate your ankles so that your fins are facing out to the side toward perpendicular in respect to your legs (this prepares you to scoop water with the front of the fin).

4) With the top of your fins facing forward, rechamber/bend your knees toward the starting position in step #1. You'll be moving through an arc again. The key is to keep your knees as close to the same position in each of the four steps as possible, otherwise the tendency is to drop your knees and "hump-the-dog".

Now, practice this laying on the floor. Your back should be arched with your head up, and your knees pulled up off the floor (feel the tension in your back). Some people have a tendency to pull themselves backwards-and-up through the water column because they drop their head. That's why it's important to arch your head up. This helps to keep your horizontal movement and trim in check.

Now go practice, practice, practice!

Good Luck,
cwb