Fresh ammo for the bp/wings debate

[SeaJay]

leadweight once bubbled...
I am not alone in saying that the BP & Wings is a poor choice for the casual diver who takes one or two warm water trips per year. That diver could spend an entire vacation sorting out the BP. He might not ever get it right.

I must admit that there is truth to that. Getting it adjusted "in the ballpark" takes about ten minutes. Getting it "spot on" could take many dives.

For this reason, BC's with padding and user-adjustable straps have the advantage. With the user-adjustable straps, it can be adjusted right on the diver while he's wearing it, making for a rig that's more likely to fit. Also, with all of that padding, likely the diver can't tell the difference between a well-fitting rig and a poor fitting rig. Thus, "winging it" works fine, and he doesn't spend the majority of his dives adjusting.

I wonder how many of these "twice a year" divers would convert to being 100 times a year divers if they were shown a simpler, cleaner way of diving?

How about divers who use really minimal exposure suits, like .5 mil, skins or nothing? Love those stiff shoulder straps.

That's a myth. A 2" strap with a pad behind it still exerts the same amount of pressure as a 2" strap without padding behind it. (Which, by the way, in the water should be near zero pounds.) It might make a difference if the straps were made of hard plastic or metal or something, in that the pad would reduce pressure points. However, we're talking about a STRAP here... Thre are no pressure points, unless you've got a rock under your strap... Which can be fixed my removing the rock, not by adding padding.

I think I'm going to begin manufacturing a harness similar to the OMS or Dive-Rite "deluxe" harnesses that allow adjustment "on the fly." This would be a perfect item to help people transition from a back-inflate or jacket to a bp/wing. It would also allow people to get a quick "tryout" or "test drive" of a correctly adjusted bp/wing setup. It would also allow dive shops all over the place to rent them with ease, and allow people to try out a bp/wing.

However, I've found that once I've adjusted everything perfectly and am happy with the adjustment, I am only annoyed by the adjusters which end up allowing my adjustments to be lost. They're also the most fragile part of the rig.

Thus, I've found that a continuous loop is my personal favorite. Simple, rugged, cheap, streamlined, and it never loses an adjustment. However, it is a pain to get it perfect. That's why it works so well for someone who buys their own BC, but doesn't work well for someone who rents.

I think a "quick adjust" harness would help people transition...

It never fails to amaze me that every diver who buys a BP feels compelled to convert everyone else to their way of doing things. It must be the feeling of pride that comes from getting through adjusting the darn thing.

Well, dude, it's a consistent pattern for a reason. The reason isn't because we're finally thrilled that we got the adjustment right... It's because the things are so damn good. It's because it changes everything... And we can't help but to want to tell everyone.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

I think I'm going to begin manufacturing a harness similar to the OMS or Dive-Rite "deluxe" harnesses that allow adjustment "on the fly." This would be a perfect item to help people transition from a back-inflate or jacket to a bp/wing. It would also allow people to get a quick "tryout" or "test drive" of a correctly adjusted bp/wing setup. It would also allow dive shops all over the place to rent them with ease, and allow people to try out a bp/wing.

Now you know why OMS markets the popular IQ Harness - fast, quick and easy to adjust with any suit combo or no suit at all! My IQ can fits MANY people, yet when I snug down the straps, it can be as tight (or as loose) as I deem necessary for comfort or personal preference.

 

[SeaJay]

...So then the OMS IQ harness is adjustable "on the fly?"

You know my feelings, Scoob, about adjusters. To me, they're something that I want to mess with once, and once only. Thus, I prefer my personal gear to be of the "continuous loop" style.

But I can completely see why something like that would be of great use in a rental rig or if you wanted to be able to lend it out to others for their use.

By the way, leadweight... Since the OMS IQ harness exists, I believe that means that your point about bp/wings being difficult to adjust is null and void.

See, that's the beauty in a bp/wing... Someone could even have a bp/wing with an IQ harness, and then once they got their adjustments right, could easily switch over to a continuous loop style web... If that's what they wanted to do... For about $5.

...And that's not an opinion, that's fact.

 

[Scubaroo]

ScoobieDooo once bubbled...
As I recall, that particular argument got a former member kicked off when the debate heated up between BP's and jacket BC's when he decided he didn't like his BP and wing. As I recall Scuba446 (I might be wrong on this 'handle') was dreadfully abused when he converted 'back' from the BP arena.

Zealots is right...

You weren't kicked off. You just created another identity, and you're getting a fresh start, Scuba446...

There's something in the forums terms of service you should read:

No person may signup for more than one account at any time regardless of his or her position or reason, without the direct knowledge of both technical admins, aka "King_Neptune" and "Tech Admin".

 

[Walter]

SeaJay,

I remember your Jets didn't fit. While I never used Turtles, I've heard from Bob3 (a man I trust) that they as as good as Jets. I have used Rockets. Quite frankly, they are a poor choice for anyone. I'd rather use tupperware fins than Rockets.

I've dived wings with no padding and found them very comfortable. Padding is not needed on any BC set up.

I just finished teaching dive tables, so I haven't yet read your edited article, but I will read it tomorrow (or late tonight) and give you feed back.

I know that article took lots of work and I know it's important to you. Stick with it.

 

[ScoobieDooo]

SeaJay,
Well, the IQ Pak itself can't be converted to a continuous 1 pc webbing design - one would have to shed the IQ Pak itself, yank the BP out of it and thread it with webbing. It could be done though if one progressed to the point of wanting to go that route - but your right - it'd be a great way for rentals, beginners, classes, etc. to get started easily and without all the fuss...

 

[ElectricZombie]

leadweight once bubbled...
Its the typical pattern around here. Joe Casual diver asks "what is the best jacket BC" and ten zealots chime in "BP" without even asking what kind of diving he does. That is because they don't care.

Regardless of what type of diving he is planning to do, recreational all the way to technical, the BP/Wing is a solid choice that will be more than adequate for his needs...notice I did not say "best". That might not be what he chooses, but he needs to be aware of the options. (I am so pissed that I was never even shown a BP when I was first certified) People suggest the BP/Wing often because they are trying to be helpful. They are not doing it just to create some sort of online DIR cult.

Going 18000 feet back in a cave proves it is good for caves. It proves nothing for Joe Casual who will never dive doubles, let alone see the inside of an underwater cave. He wants to take his BC out of the bag and use it without any trouble.

I spent about 20mins adjusting my BP and have not made any more adjustments since. My BP is out of the bag, setup and ready to go before anyone else on the boat.

It never fails to amaze me that every diver who buys a BP feels compelled to convert everyone else to their way of doing things. It must be the feeling of pride that comes from getting through adjusting the darn thing.

Most people could care less what others dive as long as they don't have to dive with the individual in question. The BP is promoted because it works.


You don't see a ton of posts on ScubaBoard boasting "My super-duper jacket BC rocks! Best BC ever!"


I wonder why?

I am going to go out and get some spring straps and use them to shoot paper wads at a BP

After you get done, mail the spring straps over to me.

Dive Safe

 

[SeaJay]

What about the Power fins? What's your opinion? I understand that they're slightly longer and narrower Turtles, with a slightly smaller foot pocket.

Zombieman, you crack me up.

Scoob: Have you tried doing that with your pack? Purchase 10' of continuous webbing from FredT and weave it through your backplate and tell us what you think...

 

[ScoobieDooo]

SeaJay,
I dove a 1-pc webbed BP before and didn't care for it when I used a .5mm wetsuit vs. a 7mm wetsuit.

My #1 complaint wasn't that it would go 'out of adjustment' on me as much as the pain of initially setting one up. Its a real hassle trying to move sliders thru new stiff webbing, especially if you had it in one spot for a few days and a 'groove' started to take a set and you then had to move it over, say, 1 inch. Then it gets tough....

 

[Northeastwrecks]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...

After you get done, mail the spring straps over to me.

Dive Safe

Or send them my way.

What do spring straps have to do with BP's. Personally, I'd use spring straps regardless of the BC I was using. After all, regardless of your choice of fins, its not fun to break a strap.

As for the BC/BP debate, there is very little doubt in my mind that you can use many types of BC's for recreational diving. However, the unit that functions best, overall and in many varied conditions, appears to be the BP.

I've used mine in the Northeast and the Carribean. Winter and summer. Wreck diving, wall diving and reef diving. Exposure suits ranged from a drysuit to a 3mm. Tanks range from an AL63 to double 104's. Nothing is as versatile and downright comfortable as that rig.

That fact that it cost far less than my Zeagle is also nice.