Frequency of advanced divers practicing CESAs ? [Poll]

[TMHeimer]

I can’t believe that instructors are still required to teach CESA in a manner endangering their own health. When an orca was chewing up trainers it was covered up a while, but eventually resulted in an OSHA lawsuit, a movie, and awareness of the plight of workers and orcas. Are agencies not opening themselves to a class action lawsuit here?

Very interesting point. As it seems we have all at least heard stories of instructor injuries, it is strange that there has apparently been no lawsuits.

Something else I was considering was a thread a while ago asking how "safe" it was to do multiple regular (non-CESA) ascents from shallow (20-30') depths on the same dive. Sometimes I do this--maybe up to 3-4 times, as I do tend to get turned around a bit hunting shells (even though I know the sites very well). I wonder if there is any difference with multiple CESAs vs. multiple normal ascents regarding DCS, ear problems, etc. I have never had a problem doing such normal ascents, but perhaps lucky.

 

[vovanx]

I have never practiced a CESA since OWD course, but I always dive with 2 tanks.

 

[yle]

Any other comment on the ideal frequency and setting of the practice of this skill would be most welcome.

Is it possible to practice this too much, or not enough ?

What criteria would you use to determine how much is "just right" ?

You don't really need to practice ascending to practice a "CESA". You really just need to practice exhaling slowly, so you develop a solid, intuitive idea of how long you can make one breath last.

If you know that, you'll know how much time you'll have to swim the surface at a controlled pace, should the need ever arise.

I practice timing my slow exhales regularly. I aim for a minute, and can easily do that. No need to practice the ascent part of the CESA, I know I can do that.

And... practicing an oral inflate of your BCD at the surface on a regular basis is a good idea, and has usefulness beyond the last step in the CESA process.

 

[lowviz]

I must be really dense. What does overexerting yourself have to do with a controlled CESA ascent?

In theory: We all sit on the platform breathing normally awaiting our turn to do the single CESA that many (most) of us will ever do. Our turn comes, check that box.

Reality: My formal PSD training was very unlike my recreational training and it really differed in only one main way. In recreational training, the idea is to have fun. We aren't always having fun as some of the work is really intense. But even in the advanced training where the real dangers are greatly magnified, you can choose when and where to dive and if that dive is safe enough to carry out under the given situation.

The exercise that I mentioned was a reality check. The question to the students had to do with OOA options and how they would handle them. Remember that this is supposed to be an emergency situation. Most, if not all of the student suggested 'chains of responses' to the emergency failed under stress. So we all start with a real-world wake-up call. Face down in two feet of water, instructor fist-bumps your head and you start finning as hard as you can (for real or you repeat the exercise) and after only 1 minute your instructor fist-bumps you again to switch to your safe second. I passed and was congratulated after my coughing fit subsided.

What did I learn that translates to the recreational world? For me, I said that doing an underwater sprint to get to an OOA diver puts me into a highly compromised state. No, I assure you, I could not do a CESA under that condition.

 

[yle]

Face down in two feet of water, instructor fist-bumps your head and you start finning as hard as you can (for real or you repeat the exercise) and after only 1 minute your instructor fist-bumps you again to switch to your safe second. I passed and was congratulated after my coughing fit subsided.

What did I learn that translates to the recreational world? For me, I said that doing an underwater sprint to get to an OOA diver puts me into a highly compromised state. No, I assure you, I could not do a CESA under that condition.

If you have to fin as hard as you can for a full minute to get to an OOA diver, you must be really far away from the OOA diver. Hopefully the diver had enough sense to not wait for you to arrive... and just CESA'd instead.

Can you expand on why switching to your alternate after 1 minute of hard work is difficult? I can understand that clearing the reg by exhaling might be challenging if you're breathing heavy, but it seems a quick switch and the purge button would keep you breathing. Or is this a case of "sounds easy until you try it"?

 

[northernone]

I feel I'm missing something too.

If I'm in 30ft of water and my buddy is 2 minutes hard finning away (1 for me and 1 for them) and I go OOG I'm going to the surface. No questions asked. When out of air, people look for the closest air source they can get to.

Here's my choices I think you're describing:
#1. Drown
#2. Hard fin to buddy
#3. Swim up to the surface (CESA)

If i have to choose and it's possible, I'm choose #3.

 

[AfterDark]

When I started diving I used to practice CESA frequently. I don't recall practicing it for the last 15-20 years. I did a for real, no air, safe my life CESA from 70FSW due to equipment malfunction about 40 years ago, if I could repeat that today is a question I'd like to leave unanswered. I am confident that a CESA from 20-30 would be a easily do able for me even now. I've never been one to panic or frighten easily, keeping ones wits is the most important "skill" involved in a successful CESA.

 

[lowviz]

If you have to fin as hard as you can for a full minute to get to an OOA diver, you must be really far away from the OOA diver. Hopefully the diver had enough sense to not wait for you to arrive... and just CESA'd instead.

The one minute was chosen for a couple of reasons. First, most divers can't sprint as long as they would like to think. At 45 seconds, I truly thought that they were f*&^%$g with me. My lungs were on fire, my fins were hitting the dirt and breaking the surface, and the safe second around my neck was pressed between me and the bottom. My objections were met with: "I'm sorry your emergency didn't go as planned."

Can you expand on why switching to your alternate after 1 minute of hard work is difficult?

Yes, I can. But it would be so much more personally instructive if you tried it yourself.

I feel I'm missing something too.

If I'm in 30ft of water and my buddy is 2 minutes hard finning away (1 for me and 1 for them) and I go OOG I'm going to the surface. No questions asked. When out of air, people look for the closest air source they can get to.

Here's my choices I think you're describing:
#1. Drown
#2. Hard fin to buddy
#3. Swim up to the surface (CESA)

If I have to choose and it's possible, I'm choose #3.

Emergencies never go as planned.

With what I truly believe now, I would think that the real-world choice taken would be some C/F of the three options that you offer.

 

[KenGordon]

I feel I'm missing something too.

If I'm in 30ft of water and my buddy is 2 minutes hard finning away (1 for me and 1 for them) and I go OOG I'm going to the surface. No questions asked. When out of air, people look for the closest air source they can get to.

Here's my choices I think you're describing:
#1. Drown
#2. Hard fin to buddy
#3. Swim up to the surface (CESA)

If i have to choose and it's possible, I'm choose #3.

I tell students that most/many accidents start before anyone gets in the water. Reading incident reports, albeit with heinsight, I often find myself cringing. The annual summary always includes something to the effect of “if only they had done as trained...”

So, if you are too far from your buddy to reach them with whatever gas you have available then you are too far from your buddy. Don’t do that. If your buddy vanishes then follow the protocol and surface. Live to dive another day.

This debate is like whether to take out the baby in a pram or the three nuns at the bus stop when losing it doing 90 down the high street. The answers is do not do 90 down the high street.

If you are diving in a situation that means you have no proper buddy then take a backup gas system.

 

[lowviz]

@KenGordon, I couldn't agree more with your entire post.

But even with the best of intentions, training, and self-discipline, things can still go sideways. My point is admittedly a small one. Don't assume that you can do something under real-world conditions until you actually try it in real-world conditions. Nothing more than that.