Free Flowing Regulator - teaching

[Invictys]

Yeah insta buddies are notorious. However, my concern flows also to a known but untested in a true emergency buddy. Panic/fear does crazy things to people and the self-preservation instinct is powerful.

At least with a known buddy you can run drill after drill after drill to hopefully expand everyone's comfort zone and counteract this somewhat.

 

[Juardis]

I'm going to show my ignorance, but only because I was never taught this skill. I suppose everyone should know how to sip bubbles or whatever the term is, but having never been taught, how would I go about learning how to do this?

Also, what exactly are you people referring to when you say "free flowing regulator"? When I was first learning regulator retrieval skills, I took the reg out of my mouth and let go with the mouthpiece sticking up, which led to what I would call a free flowing regulator and the hose just flying around like crazy. Is that what y'all are talking about? If so, why can't you just put it back in mouth and breathe whatever air you get? Or is that what Screwba said in his first post?

Also, what does cold water have to do with this and how cold is cold? Or are we now talking 2 different failure mechanisms? One with the diaphram and the other at the first stage?

 

[ScubaSteve]

I slowly ascended from 90' where my reg started to freeflow with the reg in my mouth (not half out) and was comfortable to whole time. Granted breathing was a little different but I had no issue with it. I can say I prefer that to the half in and sip method but it really boils down to what the agencies want you teaching IMO (or so this non-instructor would think).

Hey!

For almost a decade I have been teaching how to handle a free flowing regulator using the "corner out of the mouth and sip" technique. Yesterday, sitting in the pool with my latest class whilst timing the 30 seconds, I wondered if this is really the best way.

Why not simply tell them to hold the reg in their mouths and allow the excess airflow to exit through the exhaust valves? It works, I know, because I tried it.

Surely far safer than expecting someone to ascend safely with a regulator half way in, using a technique practiced once in a pool?

Comments?

(PADI MI, 700 certs, 3,500 dives)

 

[*dave*]

I'm going to show my ignorance, but only because I was never taught this skill. I suppose everyone should know how to sip bubbles or whatever the term is, but having never been taught, how would I go about learning how to do this?

Start in shallow water where you can stand up, depress the purge button for max flow and pop it in your mouth.

Also, what exactly are you people referring to when you say "free flowing regulator"? When I was first learning regulator retrieval skills, I took the reg out of my mouth and let go with the mouthpiece sticking up, which led to what I would call a free flowing regulator and the hose just flying around like crazy. Is that what y'all are talking about?

Yes, but more specifically we are referring to a free flow that will not stop.

If so, why can't you just put it back in mouth and breathe whatever air you get? Or is that what Screwba said in his first post?

That's the idea, but the discussion is more about whether it goes all or half in in order to allow excess pressure to escape.

Also, what does cold water have to do with this and how cold is cold? Or are we now talking 2 different failure mechanisms? One with the diaphram and the other at the first stage?

"cold" is relative to the length of time the freeflow is allowed to continue. As gas expands from the cylinder, it can reach temps 0f -50 degrees(F). The water surrounding the first stage will warm the components and prevent freezing if it is not overwhelmed by high volumes of gas passing through and expanding in the first stage. If you recall, water conducts heat 25x more efficiently than air, which is why it is common for these uncontrollable freeflow to occur on the surface, while the reg is not submerged.

If cold is not dissipated, the first stage can freeze open. Piston regulators are more prone than diaphragms, but either can freeze if you pass enough gas through them. When the first stage freezes, it does not reduce pressure flowing to the second stage. As that pressure builds, it overwhelms the second stage and an uncontrollable freeflow results. The colder the water, the easier it is to freeze the first.

Hope that helps.

 

[Juardis]

"cold" is relative to the length of time the freeflow is allowed to continue. As gas expands from the cylinder, it can reach temps 0f -50 degrees(F). The water surrounding the first stage will warm the components and prevent freezing if it is not overwhelmed by high volumes of gas passing through and expanding in the first stage. If you recall, water conducts heat 25x more efficiently than air, which is why it is common for these uncontrollable freeflow to occur on the surface, while the reg is not submerged.

If cold is not dissipated, the first stage can freeze open. Piston regulators are more prone than diaphragms, but either can freeze if you pass enough gas through them. When the first stage freezes, it does not reduce pressure flowing to the second stage. As that pressure builds, it overwhelms the second stage and an uncontrollable freeflow results. The colder the water, the easier it is to freeze the first.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, it does. Appreciate the info.

 

[j yaeger]

cold water and free flows go hand in hand
not having the free flowing reg entirely secured in your mouth may prevent
loss of teeth and or split pallet and tounge if your 2nd stage goes to pieces because extremely high pressure
from iced up 1st stage with older equipment
...on christmas eve,no less!
putting ice protection out on the st. law river
...we now have to tie cousin waynes reg in his mouth before taking him divng with us!
i don't mean to scare anyone,but this is a true story
..of course he now lives in fla. and dives with the manatees!
have fun
yaeg

 

[*dave*]

Demo of a freeflow:

 

[*dave*]

I'd bet a quarter that was an upstream second stage?

There's a special place in hell for engineers that have designed such technical marvels.

cold water and free flows go hand in hand
not having the free flowing reg entirely secured in your mouth may prevent
loss of teeth and or split pallet and tounge if your 2nd stage goes to pieces because extremely high pressure
from iced up 1st stage with older equipment
...on christmas eve,no less!
putting ice protection out on the st. law river
...we now have to tie cousin waynes reg in his mouth before taking him divng with us!
i don't mean to scare anyone,but this is a true story
..of course he now lives in fla. and dives with the manatees!
have fun
yaeg

 

[Juardis]

ok, so this happens at, say, 90 ft. I'm with my buddy. I could air share. Based on this thread, it appears that air-sharing would increase the risk of my 1st stage freezing up as well. So would it be better to let my buddy ascend as much as possible on her tank before we air-share? And for us, air-sharing is she breathes on my primary and I use my secondary so we're obviously both doubling the air flow out of my tank, perhaps simultaneously.

 

[*dave*]

There isn't one single correct answer in this scenario. I can think of at least five different ways I might handle it, but each would depend on the situation and the diver involved. My preferred method would be for the diver to feather the valve until the first thawed. No significant loss of gas and the dive goes on.

As an instructor, I'd advise treating it as a shared air ascent while shutting down the supply to the free flow. They're noisy and the spew of gas tends to cause considerable anxiety in those inexperienced with dealing with them.