Free Flowing Regulator - teaching

[Blue Sparkle]

Just checked the exact requirements in the PADI instructor manual.

"Breathe effectively from a free-flowing regulator for not less than thirty seconds"

and the description includes the sentence

"Stress that students should not seal their mouths around the mouthpiece"

So no sipping required.

I'm far from being an instructor, so maybe I'm missing something here, but .... that does almost sound like it should be "sipping" to me. I mean, if you are holding the reg in your mouth normally, aren't your lips more-or-less "sealed" around the mouthpiece? Or close to it?

What IS the reason for the "sippy cup" method, presuming there is one (that is the way I learned, btw). I haven't tried it but it seems like holding the reg in your mouth normally might be a bit "violent"? :shrug:

 

[TSandM]

Having been involved in one violent freeflow event, I can honestly say that it would have settled me a great deal to have turned off the tank valve. The noise, and the reduced vision from being enveloped in bubbles, definitely added to the stress. HOWEVER -- that strategy depends entirely on the diver in question being able to execute a controlled, air-sharing ascent. But the biggest problem with a freeflow is that it will empty a tank in about 90 seconds (or less, depending on where you were on pressure when it happened), and by the time you have stopped fiddling with the reg to get it to stop, you've probably spent half of that time. So now you have to execute an immediate ascent from wherever you are, in noise and bubbles and quite possibly without having any communication with your buddy. Establishing a gas-share and shutting the tank down puts you in communication with your buddy/team, calms everyone, and removes the necessity for extremely rapid response, which is something that always raises people's adrenaline levels.

Although I think it's an awfully good idea for everyone to be able to reach his tank valve, I have to say that in our water, few people can do it with enough facility to feather a single tank valve on ascent. I would not like to try that, but of course, I would never have to.

 

[*dave*]

Given the context of the OP is one of instructing new divers within the confines of the PADI system, I'm going to guess there is only one way that is appropriate to teach the skill. I'm not affiliated with that agency, but I've gotten the impression they are pretty specific as to how they want things taught. Is there enough flexibility in the system that deviating from the program as has been suggested in this thread would be acceptable?

 

[Steve50]

Don't just practice emergency procedures once. With a properly tilted head the bubbles are not in the way.

 

[Invictys]

But the biggest problem with a freeflow is that it will empty a tank in about 90 seconds (or less, depending on where you were on pressure when it happened), and by the time you have stopped fiddling with the reg to get it to stop, you've probably spent half of that time.

In the SDI Solo Diving Manual they have an interesting table showing the results of a study conducted by the Advanced Diving Magazine on various equipment failures and the amounts of time it takes for them to drain a tank at various depths.

I was surprised at how quickly a free flowing reg can drain the tank. According to the study, At 1 ATM (surface) a freeflowing reg will drain a full 80cf tank in 255 seconds (4.25 minutes) . At 4 ATM (99ft) it will drain it in 155 seconds (2.5 minutes approx)

Do the math but I was shocked to see how quickly this emergency can turn into an OOA. The PADI OW course I took gave it just a cursory "Oh just sip from it and ascend as normal" treatment without talking about this aspect at all.

Oh and fyi the quickest equipment failure which will drain a full 80cf tank according to SDI is a burst disk at 72 seconds followed by LP hose rupture in 83 seconds regardless of depth.

 

[DevonDiver]

I was surprised at how quickly a free flowing reg can drain the tank. According to the study, At 1 ATM (surface) a freeflowing reg will drain a full 80cf tank in 255 seconds (4.25 minutes) . At 4 ATM (99ft) it will drain it in 155 seconds (2.5 minutes approx)

I've had one violent free-flow (cold water). It happened immediately on reaching bottom depth at 34m. My 15L tank was empty by the time I had ascended to 12m. Luckily I was equipped with a pony for this dive and reached the surface with no drama. Buddy sharing was, of course, an option - but I didn't want to risk increasing the demand on my buddy's regs and possibly causing their equipment to free-flow also... as that could have lead to a very bad situation (they didn't have a pony).

I was pretty inexperienced at the time - and it did shock me just how quickly a tank could drain in such circumstances.

Do the math but I was shocked to see how quickly this emergency can turn into an OOA. The PADI OW course I took gave it just a cursory "Oh just sip from it and ascend as normal" treatment without talking about this aspect at all.

This is why we have recommended maximum depths etc.. PADI OW provides a number of simplistic self-rescue techniques that are effective within a limited range of scenarios. That's ok, providing the divers concerned recognise that fact and do, actually, limit the scenarios they expose themselves to.

 

[RTee]

Main reg vs use of oct...normally free flow are 1st stage related and their severity can vary from very mild to an all out. Since I have already air coming out from my main reg, my take on it is I might as well use some of it if not it is just waisted and going to my octo may actually deplete my remaining air supply faster. However, as others have said,assuming you are diving with a buddy, then going to his or her octo (in the absence of an additional tank (double, stage, etc)) and shutting down the tank valve would probably be the safest and best thing to do to conserve air in most ''normal'' diving situations.

Cold water induced. Devon brings up a very good point. Sometime they are the result of asking just a bit too much air simultaneously from the first stage in very cold water which then freeze the first stage (even sealed first stage) to finally induce one. Could be just a matter of inhaling from reg while adding air to BC/Wg and adding air to drysuit for warmth and there you go.

During an ice dive last year I did experienced mild free flow while diving single tank with no stage :-(. I instinctively started returning to the hole and pointed at my…instant buddy's octo so we could go through the drill that had been pre-briefed such as use buddy's octo, close valve for a short while,proceed toward the hole and then attempt to re-open the valve and see what happens. It was interesting (to say the least) to see buddy's reaction that I will only refer to as….self preservation. Not only said octo was never offered but I think the individual even moved back slightly. With plenty of air remaining and proximity of hole, I then made my way out while giving the proper rope signal to retrieve the slack in the line as I was coming back out. When I talked to my buddy afterward, his main concern was to end up himself on free flow due to the higher demand on his first stage.

While the official procedure covered as part of my refresher in 2009 was the tipping of the mouthpiece and sipping air from the bubbles, I felt quite comfortable retaining the entire mouthpiece in my mouth throughout.

 

[American Dive Center]

I had a first stage freeze up and the force of the air coming out of the second was so strong you could not use it without holding onto it. If you use your oct at that point you will just have 2 free flows. Just remember the high volume of the LP. With that in mind I wouldn't teach any other way them to hold the reg half calked and sip the air. Dive is over.

 

[Invictys]

RTee- Is that buddy now an ex-buddy? And by "talked to afterward" do you mean beat to a pulp?

Its a recurring fear of mine that in the event of an emergency my "buddy" would fail to assist whether through ignorance or intention. This is another reason why, despite my relative inexperience and vacation diver status, I am seriously considering slinging a pony. I think sometimes a "buddy" is unfortunately a false sense of security.

 

[RTee]

LOL...plenty of threads on this board dealing with Insta buddies. However, you are right about one thing. I never shared the same body of water in his company. Next ice dive will probably see me with a redundant air system of some sort (consisting as a minimum of a stage bottle).

ADC...you are also quite right. What works in a situation may not work in another one. A violent free flow could very much dictate switching to an alternate source (buddy, redundant air system, sipping from the side of the mouth piece, etc) and ultimately shutting down the tank valve to quiet things down and reduce the number of distractors.

RTee- Is that buddy now an ex-buddy? And by "talked to afterward" do you mean beat to a pulp?

Its a recurring fear of mine that in the event of an emergency my "buddy" would fail to assist whether through ignorance or intention. This is another reason why, despite my relative inexperience and vacation diver status, I am seriously considering slinging a pony. I think sometimes a "buddy" is unfortunately a false sense of security.