Question Fourth Element Halo AR

[ericfine50]

Anyone get their hands on the AR version yet? Thoughts?

 

[Comm]

Yes - I dove it a couple of weekends ago. I was really looking forward to it as I was in the market for a new undergarment. I have been diving my current DUI DuoTherm 300 for a hundred or so dives and wanted something less bulky (or im just bored). That being said, I was really disappointed by it and returned it. I dove it in a quarry with varying temperatures between 75 - 50 degrees.

Likes -
- Shape & Material: I liked how it was rather streamlined. I could definitely tell that I needed less air in the suit which helped with trim. The zipper on the side was easy to use and allowed for the drysut to sit flush in trim position


Dislikes -
- sizing & Mobility… FourthElement is notorious for running a bit small. With that in mind I worked with my LDS and FE and actually measured myself beforehand to make sure that I got the right size. I am 6 feet 195 pounds and an average build - so I got a large. It fit well (but snug) around my waste, and the arm length was perfect. However, It had almost zero stretch to it - particularly any movement in the legs pulls on the shoulders. Thus, when I frog kicked I felt a lot of restriction with the suit pulling length wise and could not do a full frog kick. If I did not have the foot stirrups on (which are nice and wide btw), the legs would have easily pulled up. I found this to be a real deal breaker. Subsequently, i tried on the extra large and had the same issue - the top to bottom stretchiness is almost no existent, so any sort of frog kick is restricted.
- warmth … FE says that they did a body mapping of heat transfer with the suit. I found that the suit had weird cold spots. When i moved into the chillier temps - my arms, arm pits and shoulders felt really cold (and no, it wasn’t sweat from before the dive). It was so noticeable that I thought that maybe I had flooded my arms. They were bone dry. This wasn’t a deal breaker per se, but i definitely noticed this and would make me nervous to do pure deco dive.
- pee-valve holes… I was really excited about the pee-valve slot as the duo therm uses a dual zipper design to route it (not always the easiest). That being said, for a 6 foot tall person, the holes are around belly button height, so the stanard hose is maxed out routing it through the holes. If I recall, The Santi 400 holes are a bit lower - so it isnt an issue. Furthermore - on the halo AR, the holes are not pre-cut, so you need to cut them before diving. Im baffled as to why they didn’t pre-cut them. If I were to dive the halo AR again - i would not use the hole, but instead would have routed through the zipper.

 

[ericfine50]

Thanks for the feedback

 

[Jason Bingham]

Mine arrives Wednesday, it will be interesting to see if I notice the same things.

 

[explore_DMC]

Mine arrives Wednesday, it will be interesting to see if I notice the same things.

any different thoughts with your new suit? I’m still considering this to replace my bz200

 

[Jason Bingham]

I have not been able to get in the water with it yet but on dry land, FOR ME, it fits really well. I am the same height and weight as Comm but my body proportions/ratio of upper body to lower body may be different. Some people have more of their height in their legs and other people their height is more in the upper body. As far as warmth, Fourth Element undergarments are designed to work as a system of layers so wearing just one layer may not be warm enough for one person and fine for another. Call Ben at Paragon Dive in Arizona and talk to him about it, he is super knowledgeable, that is where I got mine from.

 

[DivingEnthusiast1]

I have not been able to get in the water with it yet but on dry land, FOR ME, it fits really well. I am the same height and weight as Comm but my body proportions/ratio of upper body to lower body may be different. Some people have more of their height in their legs and other people their height is more in the upper body. As far as warmth, Fourth Element undergarments are designed to work as a system of layers so wearing just one layer may not be warm enough for one person and fine for another. Call Ben at Paragon Dive in Arizona and talk to him about it, he is super knowledgeable, that is where I got mine from.

Hey Jason,

Any updates on the AR? Would love to learn more

 

[Jason Bingham]

As I said before mine fits me really well, just slightly toning so I do not have any range of motion issues in any way. I always wear my J2 undergarments underneath for moisture management so I do not have any issues with cold spots. The coldest conditions I have been in was water temperature 41F for 53 minutes and I was toasty all around even on my deco stop with minimal movement. I love this undergarment but I also understand why people have different opinions if the fit is not quite right.

My favorite thing was that there was only a one pound change in buoyancy for me from my FE Arctics. The aerogel fabric of whatever it is in this undergarment is awesome.

 

[ChrisMBC]

FWIW - I bought a Halo AR a few weeks ago and have 5 dives on it. Coming from a Santi Flex 2.0 and a Aqualung Fusion Thermal.

Fit: I'm 5'10" 150lbs, and the Medium Tall fits perfectly. I tried on the Medium in the shop and it wasn't long enough in the torso, limiting my mobility to get to my valves (a frequent problem I have with other suits).

Warmth/diving performance: Diving in 50 degree water, with a thin baselayer + Halo AR. Feels like I have way more mobility than in my past undergarments, and it doesn't feel bulky at all in the water. I definitely agree with what a poster above said, that you get weird cold spots under the arms. I think that's because they use a stretchier material. However, it really doesn't annoy me, and on the flip side I think the insulation over the torso/arms/back of legs (where I think it's most important) is excellent. I *really* like how the insulation extends all the way over the wrists, and the thumb loops are better designed than any other garment I've seen. I think wrist insulation is one of the most overlooked items - if you have seals/rings there it's a natural cold spot, and blood for your hands is close to the surface on the inside of your wrists, so cold wrists often equals cold hands. I normally use wrist gaiters, but I've been able to ditch them with the Halo AR.

In terms of air management, I find it takes less air to fill my suit with the AR, and it definitely vents very well (much, much better than the Santi). I am able to dive ~2-4lbs less weight (2lbs of trim weight total with Faber 100 twins).

Overall, it was definitely painfully expensive, but it fits better and dives better than any other undergarment I've tried.

 

[serpentara]

FWIW - I bought a Halo AR a few weeks ago and have 5 dives on it. Coming from a Santi Flex 2.0 and a Aqualung Fusion Thermal.

Fit: I'm 5'10" 150lbs, and the Medium Tall fits perfectly. I tried on the Medium in the shop and it wasn't long enough in the torso, limiting my mobility to get to my valves (a frequent problem I have with other suits).

Warmth/diving performance: Diving in 50 degree water, with a thin baselayer + Halo AR. Feels like I have way more mobility than in my past undergarments, and it doesn't feel bulky at all in the water. I definitely agree with what a poster above said, that you get weird cold spots under the arms. I think that's because they use a stretchier material. However, it really doesn't annoy me, and on the flip side I think the insulation over the torso/arms/back of legs (where I think it's most important) is excellent. I *really* like how the insulation extends all the way over the wrists, and the thumb loops are better designed than any other garment I've seen. I think wrist insulation is one of the most overlooked items - if you have seals/rings there it's a natural cold spot, and blood for your hands is close to the surface on the inside of your wrists, so cold wrists often equals cold hands. I normally use wrist gaiters, but I've been able to ditch them with the Halo AR.

In terms of air management, I find it takes less air to fill my suit with the AR, and it definitely vents very well (much, much better than the Santi). I am able to dive ~2-4lbs less weight (2lbs of trim weight total with Faber 100 twins).

Overall, it was definitely painfully expensive, but it fits better and dives better than any other undergarment I've tried.

How was the warmth overall vs the Fusion Thermal? That is my current undergarment with probably 650 dives on it, so it is great that you have used both.