Forum and Category Reorganization

[Akimbo]

Then perhaps is would be better to have the following.

I want to learn how to dive 1), which agency 2), am I going to implode 3) what about my ears 4), I have a disability 4)? After that the natural progression for many in terms of the technical aspects.

You make some interesting points. Here are some of the counterpoints that have been discussed offline:

One of the first things that we wanted to do was move Scuba Certification Agency Q&A below more popular forums because:

1. It takes up a lot of screen space due to a large number of sub-forums
2. We don't get that many questions directly to agencies
3. We get a lot of questions soliciting opinions from members in New Divers, Basic, Advanced, Technical, and Rebreather.
4. Most people at that early stage don't know about all the different agencies so that long list is a bit overwhelming.

These are the reasons for moving it from the first to the last forum in the category.

Diving Medicine and Disabilities

Diving with Disabilities is not limited to "can I dive" questions. It also includes questions and information on how and where to dive with disabilities.

Diving History

1. Vintage Diving & Equipment
   
2. Tales from the Abyss

This was explored when the History forums were being developed. Vintage Diving & Equipment is about people who like to dive vintage equipment and/or collect it. The history and biography forums are more focused on events and people that influence diving today.

Are you suggesting that Diving History (in the example above) only contain the two sub-forums and don't allow threads?

Diving inclusion

1. Women's Perspectives
2. LGBTQIA Friends & Perspectives

This is a similar issue as your vintage/history suggestion. A empty "parent" forum container for only two sub-forums isn't helpful to readers. Also, these forums aren't about inclusion so much as diving and traveling with different sensibilities (probably not the best word).

Diving Physics & Physiology

1. Diving Physics
2. Decompression Theory

I'm not sure I understand your intent here. Wouldn't a Diving Physics sub-forum under Diving Physics & Physiology be confusing?

General Comment:
Some forums can seem like a force-fit in a category when viewed from one perspective and a perfect fit when viewed from others. Changes in forum titles and what forums they are adjacent to will also change the dynamic of where members create new threads.

 

[lowwall]

What I would do follows. The idea is a progression from beginning to very advanced diving, followed by discussions of scuba issues and scuba theory, then perspectives (including Diving with Disabilities) and then the two random remaining forums.

1. New Divers & Those Considering Diving
2. Basic Scuba
3. Advanced Scuba
4. Technical Diving
   
5. Accidents & Incidents
6. Diving Medicine
   
7. Diving Physics, Physiology & Decompression Theory
8. Divers with Disabilities
9. Women's Perspectives
10. LGBTQIA Friends & Perspectives
11. Diving History: Tales from the Abyss
12. Scuba Certification Agency Q&A

Move the following to Diving Activities and Specialties

• Vintage Diving & Equipment
• Snorkeling & Freediving

Rebreather would become a subforum (listed under both Advanced and Technical?) like the other equipment-specific topics such as side-mount and Hogarthian.

 

[Akimbo]

Is it a problem to have multiple paths to the same forum or sub-forum in the new design?

Ex. In the existing structure, you can get to the classifieds both through the general equipment category discussions as a sub-sub-forum and through the classifieds forum.

This bit of magic is accomplished by creating a link that looks like a forum, which is technically called a permanent redirect. Clicking on a redirect/link will take you to a different forum, and usually (always?) in a different category. My first impression is it is a interesting though but would be confusing in the same category. It would look like a duplicate forum, sometimes on the same screen view. Does this make sense?

Since we have been talking about personal Medical situations, I can readily see advantages to having Personal Medical Questions as a top level forum outside "Explore" but then linking to it as a sub forum of "D P & P" or "D M & D" (in @Scared Silly s outline which has some Ideas I real like) and maybe even "N D & T C D" as those folks may be coming in with a "can I dive with my ..." question.

Seems reasonable. This might be a good time to solicit ideas from some of our more active medical moderators with far more insight than mine. Ping: @Duke Dive Medicine @doctormike

 

[lowwall]

Debatable. Many divers today follow this progression:

• The "thinking about it" stage (New Divers & Those Considering Diving)
• Snorkeling in a pool and in the ocean, often on vacations
• A discover Scuba "experience", often on a vacation
• An Open Water course, local or on vacation
• An AOW and/or a Nitrox course...

Discussing snorkeling only. I think you have it backwards, people interested in scuba are already snorkeling. It really helps to look at the threads on the forum. Over the past year, there aren't any from non-divers getting into snorkeling or using it as a stepping stone into diving.

 

[Akimbo]

Over the past year, there aren't any from non-divers getting into snorkeling.

Probably true for members, but don't forget the large number of guests that read this board. It makes sense that most people wouldn't become members until after the snorkeling stage. People also progress from snorkeling to freediving, which can be as fuzzy a distinction as between Basic and Advanced. Freediving dominates discussions on the Spearboard. Same on the Hawaii SkinDiver Magazine.

I know a number of very accomplished freediving spearfisherman that aren't Scuba certified.

 

[Scared Silly]

1. We don't get that many questions directly to agencies
2. We get a lot of questions soliciting opinions from members in New Divers, Basic, Advanced, Technical, and Rebreather.
3. Most people at that early stage don't know about all the different agencies so that long list is a bit overwhelming.

These are the reasons for moving it from the first to the last forum in the category.

I realized that after posting ... keeping at the end is fine.

Diving with Disabilities is not limited to "can I dive" questions. It also includes questions and information on how and where to dive with disabilities.

Fair enough but at some point some consolidation is needed.

This was explored when the History forums were being developed. Vintage Diving & Equipment is about people who like to dive vintage equipment and/or collect it. The history and biography forums are more focused on events and people that influence diving today.

Are you suggesting that Diving History (in the example above) only contain the two sub-forums and don't allow threads?

Perhaps ... Or really there only be one sub-forum, Vintage Diving & Equipment the history is the general forum.

This is a similar issue as your vintage/history suggestion. A empty "parent" forum container for only two sub-forums isn't helpful to readers. Also, these forums aren't about inclusion so much as diving and traveling with different sensibilities (probably not the best word).

Not for the case of diving inclusion and diversity. There wide range of subjects that can fall outside of the two subforms.

I'm not sure I understand your intent here. Wouldn't a Diving Physics sub-forum under Diving Physics & Physiology be confusing?

The goal here was to have a broader discussion given comments on dive medicine.

 

[-JD-]

This bit of magic is accomplished by creating a link that looks like a forum, which is technically called a permanent redirect. Clicking on a redirect/link will take you to a different forum, and usually (always?) in a different category. My first impression is it is a interesting though but would be confusing in the same category. It would look like a duplicate forum, sometimes on the same screen view. Does this make sense?

I'm thinking that the replication of paths to specific forums (while possibly repetitive visually) solves some of the need to get people to where they want to go even though they come at the process differently than the "other" person.
Second example - Decompression could arguably be a linked sub forum under Technical as it is a practice of Tech divers in addition to being a D P & P theoretical topic.
I'm sure that we could come up with a bunch of others.
Given the (tons IMO) of miscatagorized threads, more ways to find the "right" location is probably better as long as it doesn't make ongoing modding somehow more difficult.

Seems reasonable. This might be a good time to solicit ideas from some of our more active medical moderators with far more insight than mine. Ping: @Duke Dive Medicine @doctormike

Agreed!

 

[lowwall]

Probably true for members, but don't forget the large number of guests that read this board. It makes sense that most people wouldn't become members until after the snorkeling stage. People also progress from snorkeling to freediving, which can be as fuzzy a distinction as between Basic and Advanced. Freediving dominates discussions on the Spearboard. Same on the Hawaii SkinDiver Magazine.

I know a number of very accomplished freediving spearfisherman that aren't Scuba certified.

That supports my point. Snorkeling and Freediving are their own thing. They are not logically on the progression of scuba diving, except perhaps as a common precursor.

Remember this is Scubaboard, not Divingboard. Again the number and content of the posts in the forum reflect this. That's why I suggest moving it to the Specialties group.

The main point is that it's very confusing for a prospective or new diver to look at the list of forums and understand anything about the structure with snorkeling in the #2 spot.

 

[Akimbo]

That supports my point. Snorkeling and Freediving are their own thing. They are not logically on the progression of scuba diving, except perhaps as a common precursor.

Why is the New Divers & Those Considering Diving a logical precursor and snorkeling isn't? I have asked several dive operators in the tropics why they bother with snorkeling. They all said that most of their new-scuba clients rent snorkeling gear and go on guided snorkeling trips before taking a Discover Scuba class. I suspect that a significant number of new divers that enter the sport through the local route snorkel in a pool before making the significant commitment to a Scuba class.

Does it matter if snorkeling and freediving is the end game or on the path to Scuba, or even commercial diving? All divers are welcome here and bring interesting information. I'm having trouble seeing the conflict.

 

[lowwall]

Why is the New Divers & Those Considering Diving a logical precursor and snorkeling isn't? I have asked several dive operators in the tropics why they bother with snorkeling. They all said that most of their new-scuba clients rent snorkeling gear and go on guided snorkeling trips before taking a Discover Scuba class. I suspect that a significant number of new divers that enter the sport through the local route snorkel in a pool before making the significant commitment to a Scuba class.

Given this, you should be arguing for putting Snorkeling and Freediving at the very top of the list, followed by New Divers etc . I'd agree that would be the logical progression, but I don't agree that would make sense for this site.

And I think that's where our difference in opinion comes from. I'm thinking about the forum categorization from the point of view of a scuba diver or someone interested in scuba diving, because that is the actual audience of this site.

Does it matter if snorkeling and freediving is the end game or on the path to Scuba, or even commercial diving? All divers are welcome here and bring interesting information. I'm having trouble seeing the conflict.

Maybe I'm confused. Isn't this site about scuba diving? It is called Scubaboard and almost everything public on it is about scuba diving. If I were a non-scuba diver interested in the topics of snorkeling or freediving, I would never think to come here. Heck, even as a scuba diver, if I were interested in advancing my limited freediving skills, I would look elsewhere. And if I were doing a Google search for those topics, I'd likely be led elsewhere because specialist sites will have a higher ranking on those topics.

Scuba divers do occasionally need info or want to share something about those topics, so it makes sense to have the forum. But I think it makes sense to look into what it is actually used for here and place that forum appropriately.