Forget fossil hunting at Venice Beach

[reefsavers.org]

Becareful with statements like this.. I might start thinking of a sidekick in green if you keep that up! I have to totally agree here as well - being a whose done this online communication stuff for a while, its something I see over and over with new folks as a common mistake since there is no way to hear the tonal inflection and see facial expressions that make up a normal conversation. At times I would LOVE to ream someone, but to what gains? None really, just a good steam blowing off. I'm sure that as Sam gets to know our group he'll come to appreciate the sometimes hidden sarcasm that occaisionally gets used to express feelings regarding those on land being blatently unaware and uncaring for that which lives below the surface.

If you read his site and some of his posts, its appearent that he's passionate about his cause however he's also used to dealing with the unaware or uneducated on a regular basis. Hopefully he'll recognize that we're not the average once a year Coz divers, but the ones who dive regularly, who enjoy shooting fish (camera, speargun, both!), who own our own gear and in some cases we're even natives of the state (31 years and going myself) who have watched things change in many ways.. sometimes good and sometimes bad.

That being said, I believe its safe to say that nobody who dives would support the destruction of reef for a larger beach made out of completely inappropriate sand for beaches, much less by removing it from where it settled because its to large and granular to be barrier beach to begin with! Sand box maybe, but not the stuff you make sand castles out of... at least not here in Ft Myers.

Am I right Sam?

so very right!

 

[CBulla]

HEY! It just occured to me that Turtle nesting season should be happening soon... along with this "renourishment" to ruin that very enviroment. I also very distinctly remember the Venice public beach being peppered with turtle nests...

What is going to happen to the nests that are put up during this renourishment? Will this process be stopped until after nesting season should nests be placed on the beach?

Curiosity just grips my mind.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The beach environment is a dynamic one; barrier islands are essentially "waves" of sand. The waves bring the sand ashore, where prevailing winds blow the sand from the shore to the back side of the island, and the island "rolls", creeping shoreward until it joins the mainland. If you fly over the Florida Panhandle coast, for example, you can clearly see the progression of ancient barrier island against barrier island for several miles inland. Seaward from the barrier island is a series of sanbars, also building and rolling shoreward with the waves, eventually breaking the surface and forming a new barrier island as the old one comes ashore - and so the process continues. Sand is replenished from the mainland, washed to sea in rivers and streams.
Like their desert counterparts, these waves of sand cover and uncover the natural bottom as they move; natural live-bottom reefs come and go with the sandbars.
But it all happens slowly.
When beach restoration/replenishment projects come along they attempt to halt, reverse or to hurry along the natural process, causing perhaps a thousand or more years movement in a month over a localized area - natural processes that would allow a reef community to move along as hard bottom is slowly uncovered and covered don't have time to succeed, leaving sterile rock and sand instead, which may or may not recover in our lifetime.
When I was a boy there were no houses, roads or trash on Florida point. The sand was as white as sugar, and so clean it would "bark" when you walked on it. Sand crabs scurried out of your way as you passed; the water was clear and blue-green, the menhaden so thick they'd get in your bathing suit when you body-surfed, schools of blues & mackerel so thick it looked like you could walk on 'em.
Today....
Wall to wall condos, immigrants from inland.... and dirt.
The sand doesn't bark anymore.
And that hurts.
Rick

 

[reefsavers.org]

The beach environment is a dynamic one; barrier islands are essentially "waves" of sand. The waves bring the sand ashore, where prevailing winds blow the sand from the shore to the back side of the island, and the island "rolls", creeping shoreward until it joins the mainland. If you fly over the Florida Panhandle coast, for example, you can clearly see the progression of ancient barrier island against barrier island for several miles inland. Seaward from the barrier island is a series of sanbars, also building and rolling shoreward with the waves, eventually breaking the surface and forming a new barrier island as the old one comes ashore - and so the process continues. Sand is replenished from the mainland, washed to sea in rivers and streams.
Like their desert counterparts, these waves of sand cover and uncover the natural bottom as they move; natural live-bottom reefs come and go with the sandbars.
But it all happens slowly.
When beach restoration/replenishment projects come along they attempt to halt, reverse or to hurry along the natural process, causing perhaps a thousand or more years movement in a month over a localized area - natural processes that would allow a reef community to move along as hard bottom is slowly uncovered and covered don't have time to succeed, leaving sterile rock and sand instead, which may or may not recover in our lifetime.
When I was a boy there were no houses, roads or trash on Florida point. The sand was as white as sugar, and so clean it would "bark" when you walked on it. Sand crabs scurried out of your way as you passed; the water was clear and blue-green, the menhaden so thick they'd get in your bathing suit when you body-surfed, schools of blues & mackerel so thick it looked like you could walk on 'em.
Today....
Wall to wall condos, immigrants from inland.... and dirt.
The sand doesn't bark anymore.
And that hurts.
Rick

arent you the same guy who was all for loosening the protective status of sea turtles last week?
now I find you here actually making a sound positive statement for the enviroment.
I must say I like you better this way. As a scubaboard staff member you have the ability to do such that. Its good to see you taking a stand for the right side.
now if we can get the rest of the diving population to unite on this subject we may have a chance to change things. As you are aware that part of the reasoning behind lifting the protective status is to loosen restrictions on sea shore development and beach reclaimation.No turtles to harm no reason to stop that 10 floor condo from being built or that beach being expanded. Its not just the sea turtles its plants like mangrove and sea oats,seagrape and several other species that make up the shoreline.
I remember those days you wrote of as well. they were days filled with adventure as a young lad and I hope to see my child and other children enjoy that as well.
Mother nature has a history of undoing mankinds mistakes and we can only hope that
when all is done she reclaims her place along the shoreline. thanks for taking time to
share that thought. I knew you had it in you!

 

[CBulla]

Ya know Sam, when folks here speak out they tend to end up in jail on all sorts of trumped up charges.. It's about patience and waiting for the folks to be caught with their pants completely around their knee's and ankles.

 

[Rick Murchison]

arent you the same guy who was all for loosening the protective status of sea turtles last week?

Don't misunderstand. I am for looking at the numbers, and if the numbers warrant, then moving Hawksbills & Greens up the chain a notch. This will free precious limited assets to apply elsewhere where they may be better used.
But this thread is about beach replenishment, which in my opinion is usually a fruitless effort to beat the sea and a waste of the public treasure, as well as an environmental wound. The construction of condos on the beach is, in my opinion, short-sighted and a very bad idea - the substrate is unstable and moving; their presence affects the beach (and turtle nesting) - eventually (because of the dynamic nature of the beach I've described above) the beach will recede to the point the condo foundations will require "beach replenishment" (and the turtle nesting area is now gone) - the occasional 'cane accelerates the process.
I'm not even against all beach replenishment efforts - on a case-by-case basis it may be well warranted, especially when the beach erosion can be traced to construction or dredging nearby. But as a general rule, I'm against it.
Rick

 

[DEEPSEAWOLF]

Does anyone feel like they are trying to push melting snow back up the river with their bare hands? This is a tourist state which unfortunately caters to the beachcombers and condonazis. I am in real estate investment and the way beaches are shoveled around at the whim of the politicians to raise their paychecks sickens me. I am as sarcastic and pessimistic as anyone, (sometimes moreso), but all the phone calls and emails will not change the fact that they are willing to spend MILLIONS on this project, means you will not stop it unless you can prove it will be a loss. The fact that they are doing this AGAIN means it was lost during time before. Kind of like putting a bandaid on a cracked dam. Sooner or later it fails. The dollar force behind this does not consider scuba divers. The "new reef construction" does. I have seen that when it comes to divers, we take a back seat to beachcombers and fishermen on every issue. Try instead to show that they can make this project work by; drop the million$ into marine concrete damper walls and fish habitats that create a twenty foot wall offshore. Make an underwater dam that will retard the wave action and sand movement. Put up jacks like South Florida. Break up wave action that pulls sand from the beaches. Don't bury everything under mud and rock. Welcome to Florida beaurocracy. Unless divers are willing to boycott the entire state, this will go through. The calls and emails should be directed to the pemit grantors. Let them know that three new reefs will not be enough to replace the years of growth that will be destroyed on the old reefs and how the sand structure differs. When the city sees tourism drop because the beach isn't what it should be, and the diving and fossiling dying off, they'll consider another "reef restoration project" that we'll end up paying for. As long as money fuels their motives, unless you can hurt their wallet substantially, you are just spitting into the tornado. I wonder how many of the APPROVERS of this project have actually scuba'd the reef. Before and after pix would be helpful, if not now, then for future projects.

 

[CBulla]

Of course, this is Venice Beach area.. the folks who live and visit there by and large are so old they just basically buy a place to pass away in. They don't care about the environment around there.

 

[Firebrand]

...and become fossils themselves.