Forget fossil hunting at Venice Beach

[ReefGuy]

I'd love to, but I'm hopefully going to be diving off of a boat on saturday.

Thanks for the invite though.

We should have at least a few weeks left, as they're starting bids this week. I go there whenever I'm not diving somewhere else (usually 2x a month).

 

[reefsavers.org]

I dont believe that fossils play a part in supporting the ecosystem, however they do make it more attractive. I also know that by moving the sand onto the beach and removing it from the fossil bed will only enhance your chances in finding more fossils. You probably wont find too many walking along the beach however in the area that the sand is being pumped from will be a good area to look. The pumps used to move the sand will not destroy the teeth only reveal the ones buried beneath the sand.
I am upset that a few coral polyps may be destroyed and that it has become apparent that man will always try to undo what mother nature has arranged.
There are plenty of beaches and frankly theres too many tourist wining about not having enough beach. Maybe we should go to new York and protest the skyscrapers
and over population. How about the trash everywhere? Maybe they should concentrate their efforts in their own state than coming to ours and making ignorant decisions. I remember when there was nothing on that stretch of beach and it was beautiful now its just a meeting place for people who only care about their profits and self advancement. GET OVER IT OR GET OUT!

 

[reefsavers.org]

They don't. But they are part of a resource that can eventually be depleted if care isn't taken with respect to harvesting.

Let me get this straight. You think by leaving them buried it will change something? It sounds like to me that you are just jealous that you have'nt been able to find your own? You want to talk about a resource being destroyed lets look at how many miles of beachline has been destroyed due to resorts and condos? How about people moving here and destroying our wetlands to build sub-divisions. You've got no room to complain you are part of the problem! I suggest you find a different topic to discuss and leave this one up to the people who understand the issues.

 

[Spamsonite]

(snip) I suggest you find a different topic to discuss and leave this one up to the people who understand the issues.

Reefsavers, I think that peengers isn't trying to distract anyone from the main point here, which is the unthinkable destruction of an already rare and irreplaceable natural reef system. The fossils being depleted is a side issue, where peengers is noting that if everyone runs out there and scoops up as many megalodon teeth as they can find, then soon that interesting feature of diving there will be gone as well. Peengers isn't justifying the dredging.

Since the idea of "improving" the beach was most likely sold to the city council by the local tourism board, we divers should scream and shout about how the reef is a major location for "underwater tourism". These city councils speak only in dollar signs and tourism numbers, if we can impress them that they will lose valuable tourist money and international clout by permanently eradicating one of the very few natural reefs in the Gulf, maybe they will at least slow the process down long enough to have some kind of hearing, at which the differences about man-made and natural reefs can be brought up. To me, the difference is like a man-made fountain, and the real thing (Old Faithful). Who would get excited about going to a man-made Yellowstone?

I only advocate the underwater tourism dollars approach since it already seems that the council doesn't understand that having a natural reef nearby should be the jewel in their tourism crown. It will help our cause tremendously if we can somehow figure out how many people the combined natural reef and fossil diving draws to the local economy. We can then cast the argument as one not only about destruction of irreplaceable natural resources, but also of killing a thriving local industry (natural reef diving). It is an unfortunate fact that preservation efforts around the world almost never work out, until you can demonstrate that it's profitable somehow.

And let's not forget that Florida is the state of Epcot/Disneyworld, perhaps the largest, most thoroughly fake man-made attraction in the history of the world...

 

[peengers]

Reefsavers, I think that peengers isn't trying to distract anyone from the main point here, which is the unthinkable destruction of an already rare and irreplaceable natural reef system. The fossils being depleted is a side issue, where peengers is noting that if everyone runs out there and scoops up as many megalodon teeth as they can find, then soon that interesting feature of diving there will be gone as well. Peengers isn't justifying the dredging.

Exactly. It's funny what people read into forums replies isn't it?

 

[peengers]

Let me get this straight. You think by leaving them buried it will change something? It sounds like to me that you are just jealous that you have'nt been able to find your own? You want to talk about a resource being destroyed lets look at how many miles of beachline has been destroyed due to resorts and condos? How about people moving here and destroying our wetlands to build sub-divisions. You've got no room to complain you are part of the problem! I suggest you find a different topic to discuss and leave this one up to the people who understand the issues.

I don't see a whole lot of real information in this reply. Maybe you should review your argumentation skills - I've found that taking a deep breath and re-reading someone's post before hitting the submit button does wonders.

 

[CBulla]

I've found that taking a deep breath and re-reading someone's post before hitting the submit button does wonders.

Becareful with statements like this.. I might start thinking of a sidekick in green if you keep that up! I have to totally agree here as well - being a whose done this online communication stuff for a while, its something I see over and over with new folks as a common mistake since there is no way to hear the tonal inflection and see facial expressions that make up a normal conversation. At times I would LOVE to ream someone, but to what gains? None really, just a good steam blowing off. I'm sure that as Sam gets to know our group he'll come to appreciate the sometimes hidden sarcasm that occaisionally gets used to express feelings regarding those on land being blatently unaware and uncaring for that which lives below the surface.

If you read his site and some of his posts, its appearent that he's passionate about his cause however he's also used to dealing with the unaware or uneducated on a regular basis. Hopefully he'll recognize that we're not the average once a year Coz divers, but the ones who dive regularly, who enjoy shooting fish (camera, speargun, both!), who own our own gear and in some cases we're even natives of the state (31 years and going myself) who have watched things change in many ways.. sometimes good and sometimes bad.

That being said, I believe its safe to say that nobody who dives would support the destruction of reef for a larger beach made out of completely inappropriate sand for beaches, much less by removing it from where it settled because its to large and granular to be barrier beach to begin with! Sand box maybe, but not the stuff you make sand castles out of... at least not here in Ft Myers.

Am I right Sam?

 

[Scuba_Dad]

Reefsavers, I think that peengers isn't trying to distract anyone from the main point here, which is the unthinkable destruction of an already rare and irreplaceable natural reef system. The fossils being depleted is a side issue, where peengers is noting that if everyone runs out there and scoops up as many megalodon teeth as they can find, then soon that interesting feature of diving there will be gone as well. Peengers isn't justifying the dredging.

Well said!!!

 

[ReefGuy]

Went to Alhambra today. My question now is:

WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS?

There's no beach erosion. If any of you conchs have some pre-Charlie pics of the area (specifically to include the white tubes) I think I can demonstrate that there's NO beach erosion. Also, the sandbar is back, just a little further out.

More and more this just smacks of BS.

As for the issue with Reefsavers and Peeinger. I think part of it was my fault, as the thread is definately mis-named. Sorry. Let's just get along.

 

[Spamsonite]

ReefGuy,

Learning of this project is almost nauseating. One could take a very Libertarian approach and say that the people who have built on the "upshore properties" knew that they were building on beaches, and BEACHES ARE EROSION IN ACTION. So if that erosion threatens their property - tough. It's like people building houses underneath an airport's flight path, then complaining about the noise.

Other than simply calling the responsible politicians and expressing my disgust with their intentions, I'd like to get the most mileage out of it by having a specific disagreement. One that they will hear over and over and over from everyone that calls or writes... The article basically says that shark-tooth gathering is the only industry that will suffer, but I am sure that there are a lot of dollars getting poured into the local economy by SCUBA divers, with the natural reefs being a particular draw. Ecotourism is a legitimate industry in most politican's minds, whereas they are already calling tooth-gathering a "hobby".

ReefGuy, since you are a lot more familiar with the area, are there any local environmental groups that we could team up with? Are there any sympathetic people in the local tourism industry who will lend their voices to protect ecotourism on the natural reefs? Can we get an idea of what this represents in dollar terms to the local economy?