For or Against DIR?

What is your opinion of DIR?

  • Took a GUE Class and I'm for DIR

    Votes: 19 15.8%
  • Took a GUE Class and I am against DIR

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Never took a class, for DIR

    Votes: 28 23.3%
  • Never took a class, against DIR

    Votes: 8 6.7%
  • It's a stupid argument and I dont care one way or the other

    Votes: 64 53.3%

  • Total voters
    120

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Grajan once bubbled...
Sorry - not sure how to quote yet....

I'm in Houston and was planning to get on the Discover Scuba course. It looks (looked) like the training would be really valuable.

Then:

I read one of the course guides (from another site) that basically said it had to be all or nothing on gear. 'If you are not going to totally conform don't bother turning up' - well...........

Grajan

I took the DIRF course from Discover SCUBA in the middle of August. It was certainly a learning experience for me even tho I had a pretty good idea what DIR was all about.

DIRF does NOT require all or nothing gear. They teach you the FUNDAMENTALS of the DIR approach, and where you choose to go from there is up to you. I certainly wasnt in a DIR rig, I was the only one not wearing a backplate in the class, but I was still allowed to participate.

In some of their advanced classes (Tech 1, Cave 1) they may require a certain rig. But that is no different than me taking my NACD class and being expected to have certain equipment.

If you want to know how the class turned out, I posted a full report in this forum about a week or so ago.

If you have the opportunity, and you are still interested, I would encourage you to take the class. I am willing to bet you learn something that helps you improve your diving.
 
I am not agaist it but i dont belive they issuies i have heard in past should be right since i havent had the class manily because one not in my area is that if you dont change your equipment to there way your wrong , i hope this isnt true same style same equipment isnt for everyone
 
DIR; Has a good plan..
:mean:
 
jonnythan once bubbled...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grajan once bubbled...
Some of them (flying in particular) have MUCH better training standards, equipment standards and corrective action standards than SCUBA with no attempt whatsoever to make everyone use the same gear. We could learn a lot........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Isn't that precisely what GUE is addressing with DIR and DIRF? Training to a far higher standard, and the enforcement of standardization of equipment and corrective actions? Just because a couple of a**holes argue for it makes it bad? Didn't you just say it was good and virtually necessary?

Actually its not the same at all.

When I sit behind the controls of an aircraft that has a "glass" cockpit, it is up to me how to configure it. When I fly with conventional instruments, the make and model, and even the placement of the instruments are entirely up to the owner of the aircraft. I as a pilot must familiarize myself as part of a preflight. This may also include a check flight with an instructor, but it is still up to me.

The GUE/DIR "standard" dictates to you what gear you MUST have, as well as HOW you wear and use. If you wish to allow some one for "enforce" a standard on you, all the power to you. I prefer to excersize my right to free choice of what I use, and how I use it. And when I dive with a "new" buddy, I will take the 30 seconds to familiarize myself with his or her gear configuration, and ensure that they are familiar with mine. I have a brain, and am willing and capable of adapting. From what I can see, GUE/DIR discourages this and as a result, discourages its followers from diving with "non-DIR" divers. Too bad, they are merely isolating themselves.
 
HOW and WHERE are strong words.

Which create a misconception because a lot of people miss the WHY.

Its true that DIR implies a lot of standards, and is fairly rigid... and it is a holistic system. A lot of people try to post the whole picture, but unfortunately the more aggressive folks who don't paint the entire picture leave the lasting impression.

For instance, horizontal trim to reduce kicking up silt on the bottom. Long hose, so you and your teammate can share gas and exit an environment in a single file, while maintaining horizontal trim as dictated by the environment. Octo on a necklace ensures that when you donate (give the primary reg to your teammate), the backup is under your chin, not dragging behind, or "somewhere" on your chest. Horizontal ascent, to be in the ready postion to help your teammate, and better control the ascent through basic principles of physics.

Hard to explain, but the integrity of the system has dependencies on itself. If you can't perform a particular skill you put the team at risk. If you perform a skill a different way, you introduce unknown problems that may cause further stress to the team.

In all mission critical systems there is a fairly rigid process. In advanced dives there should also be a rigid process that divers on any team should follow. These processes help mitigate extraneous problems.

JJ started our DIR-F lecture talking about the "Theory of Chaos". Small problems that compound themselves into catastrophic problems. DIR tries to account for common small problems and implements standardization or processes to provide a consistent, and predictable resolution.

Ken
 
Ken,
Everything you say makes good sense - including the rigidity - IN A CAVE.

But drift diving a Cozumel reef?

I dont think so.

Graham
 
Let me see if I've got this correct -

Main points of DIR kit are:

Standardised rig - everything is in same place
Bouyancy on diver's back
Minimalist approach

Funny really as one of the main arguments I've seen against HUBs are the fact that you are stuck with standardised kit.

Saw this on DIS-UK web site

Partner: Who to dive with? Never dive with anyone unsafe, who is not streamlined and whose kit does not meet your expectations of a safe and responsible diver. Never dive beyond your limits unless supervised and being trained for it. Never dive with someone who does not care for their equipment or care for themselves. Remember: There is nothing down there worth dying for! Dive only with people who have the same responsibility, attitude, mentality and configuration you do.

Do it Right. Do It Safe and Simple. Safe diving...

Apparently DIR says it's safe to dive BEYOND your limits as long as you are being supervised
 
I have done cold water, low visibility, wreck penetration, night and current in fresh & salt water, including ice diving.
I’ve been diving for 35 years, certified diver for 30 years and an active NAUI instructor since 1978.

I believe in the following philosophies:
A)When diving, we are all responsible for our own safety. With this responsibility comes the right to not only make our own decisions, but also to decide upon which criteria to base those decisions. In the rest of this posting, I refer to his paragraph as Point A.
B)I believe that there is usually more than one way to do something effectively.
C)I believe that almost everything is a matter of choice.

Given these beliefs, especially the second, my initial reaction to the concept of DIR is that these people should not be taken too seriously. The name Doing it Right, suggests that everything else is wrong, a concept that I reject.

However, it is always worth listening to what others have to say. You might learn something.

DIR says that your most important piece of equipment is your buddy. I agree with this, but this concept is not unique to DIR. It does nicely lead to: Rule#1

Rule # 1 - Don't Dive With Strokes. This is a good rule. Just as any diver can abort any dive at any time for any reason, any diver can also reject a buddy for any reason. Refer to Point A.

DIR says don't use computers. I disagree. Computers make diving easier, and allow for longer bottom times.

DIR has an all or nothing approach. Since I just disagreed with their computer philosophy, I am not DIR, nor do I want to be.

DIR also preaches physical fitness and proper preparation. I agree, but I am not aware of anyone who preaches otherwise. The level of required fitness and preparation varies with the type of diving. The requirements to dive Sting Ray City are not as stringent as they would be to dive the Andrea Doria.

DIR diver sets himself up to donate his primary regulator and breathe from the secondary if his buddy runs out of air. The secondary is neck laced for easy access and the primary is on a longer than normal hose. I believe this good alternate system to the traditional method of donating the octopus.
Having said that, I am a strong proponent of the keeping your regulator in your mouth. Removing your own regulator places you at risk. For wreck penetration or cave diving a 7-foot hose is required, and routing is a concern. The one that makes the most sense is to rout the second stage hose under your right arm, up your chest, around the neck and into your mouth. In this configuration the primary is donated to share air. I believe a side port (Oceanic Omega or Posiedon Cyclon ) 2nd stage to be the right choice here (It has no left or right, or upside down).

DIR preaches a streamlined, hydrodynamic equipment configuration. I agree with this but do not believe that streamlining is the most important factor in every decision.

DIR says that you should only have an SPG on your HP hose and that you should wear other instrumentation on your wrist. Furthermore, the SPG should be on a shorter than normal hose and clipped to your left hip D-ring. The reason is streamlining. I prefer to have both my integrated computer, and compass on a small console and retractor. This keeps them close, but easy to read. I wear a redundant SPG, and depth gauge console clipped to my right hip.

DIR says that divers should try to remain horizontal in the water. I agree with this concept, but I don't think this philosophy is unique to DIR. The weight belt does not have to be the only place to put weights.

DIR says that the Halcyon back plate and wings is the only buoyancy compensator anyone should use. I have seen, but not dove with this equipment. I use an aluminum back plate and wing, but it’s a Dive Rite. Less important is the harness. No quick disconnects or easy adjustment methods. DIR calls these failure points. While it is possible for these to fail, it is an extremely rare occurrence, (in 24 years of active teaching I've seen one)and I am quite willing to accept the risk that the plastic clips will last a long time. Something else I do not like about this BC is the power inflator and dump. I prefer the type that you can pull on to dump air from the BC.

DIR says the Jet fin is the only fin to have. This is CRAP. I dove with Jet fins for 25 years, "they are great fins" but technology changes. I switched to Mares Volo fins, and my air consumption dropped 20% (They're better)!
The SS spring straps are a good idea, and prevent strap breakage.This can be done easily on Mares fins with 4 3/16" SS shackles. (see separate string on Mares fins)

DIR says that you should only bring necessary equipment with you diving. I agree with this. Of course, deciding what to bring and what to leave behind is up to the diver, based on the type of dive to be made - refer to Point A.

DIR says no deep air. I agree. I have personally felt the effects of nitrogen narcosis below 125 feet. I do not feel competent or safe below at this depth. My choices are:
1. Limit the depth to less than 125 feet
2. Dive trimix.
3. Don’t dive

Mike D
:blfish:
 
But I guess I don't get why people get their hackles up over DIR.

If you are diver and are curious about continuous improvement of your skills, then you try to learn as much as you can about diving and dive skills through reading, on-line research and advanced coursework.

For anyone with this mindset, I think it is useful to read about DIR as another potential way to improve skills -- learn about and evaluate its concepts, and decide whether to embrace it.

If you are put off by some of the on-line DIR zealots -- I agree that these attitudes need adjusting, but to ignore the DIR message due to the poor manners of a few bad apples.....that would be a shame.

I have to say that, without exception, NO ONE I've ever spoken to IN PERSON about DIR has ever been anything but polite, helpful, and patient in helping to teach me about DIR -- they have let me borrow their gear, helped to answer my questions, dove with me while I was still using a non-DIR gear config, etc. THe GUE instructors I met in my DIRF course were patient and helpful -- criticism was direct, but constructive. These were guys that had every reason to be cocky and "superior" given their dive resumes....they were anything but in the course.

My $0.02.
 
mddolson once bubbled...
I believe in the following philosophies:
>snip<
Excellent post. Excellent.
Rick
 

Back
Top Bottom