Fish don't feel pain

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Horse Hockey. Stick one with a spear and watch it jump. Hook one and it jumps. Pull out the hook, it jumps and/or quivers. They still taste good. I think I belong to that PETA group, isn't that the People that Eat Tasty Animals group? I belong to that one.

Jewfish are Jewfish, have been for a long time, I'm not changing what I call them for anything. Native Americans? I'm one of those. I was born on the Continent of North America. That makes me a native.

I had some other stuff to say, but thought it was just too grumpy. I could have offended someone and I might have gotten kicked off the board.

You people are funny.
 
would know... :bonk:
 
WW,

I don't know, my earlier thoughts had something to do with Injuns being Injuns and I was most likely considered a White Eyes, and such as that. Although, I know a couple of Injuns and they call me white eyes. They tend to like being called Injun compared to Native American, but they actually would rather be called Cherokee, or Pawnee, or Apache, or whatever they really are. They usually have a blast when they talk about them getting their religous holidays off and our religous holidays off. But I don't get their religous holidays off. Sounds like discrimination to me. What do you think?:)
 
Grumpydiver1 once bubbled...
WW,

I don't know, my earlier thoughts had something to do with Injuns being Injuns and I was most likely considered a White Eyes, and such as that. Although, I know a couple of Injuns and they call me white eyes. They tend to like being called Injun compared to Native American, but they actually would rather be called Cherokee, or Pawnee, or Apache, or whatever they really are. They usually have a blast when they talk about them getting their religous holidays off and our religous holidays off. But I don't get their religous holidays off. Sounds like discrimination to me. What do you think?:)
Hmmm .... what day was little big horn ........ summertime wasn't it?

Works for me!:wink:
 
How did this spiral so off topic??? Do Jewfish feel pain or are they just irrated that they are called "Jewfish"?
 
Probably still feels something closely akin to pain.
After all... "If you cut them, do they not bleed?" (sic)
I take it this whole debate is over the "species formerly known as jewfish" Epinephelus itajara , not any of the four Australian species (all different genera!) that also somehow fail to come running when called by the name "jewfish". If the fisheries gurus pick a name that causes less offense and possibly even less confusion, why get your collective knickers in a knot over it? The fish don't care (though they might have some strong words to say about the pain research).

Apart from any PC reasoning, it makes sense to me to name the fish something that shows what it's related to - in this case the giant grouper and not the various Australian species that have similar common names.

For details on the name change try here (PDF):
http://www.fisheries.org/fisheries/archive/F0105p31.PDF
As usual, JMHO, etc. etc. cat
 
The argument of the icthyologist previously quoted seems quite dubious to me. The argument, that is, that fish respond to aversive stimuli but do not have an awareness of pain because they lack the parts of the brain that are involved in awareness of such things. He points out, for example, that patients under anesthesia respond to aversive physical stimulation but are not aware of pain.

First, to the degree that the ability to be aware of pain is something that has been selected for or is associated with other things adaptations that have been selected for, there is no reason to think that all species solve the problem withe the same neural substrates. For example, in humans, memory is a function of specific brain regions. The neocortex and certain limbic structures in particular. Learning and memory are adaptations with great survival value however, and other species have come up with ways to accomplish this in different ways. Bee's, for instance, are very good learners, but don't even have what most people would call a brain, much less a neocortex.

Secondly, although it is a bit of an aside, no one has any idea in my view whether or not one can feel pain while under anesthesia. Certainly you do not remember it if you do, but that doesn't mean you don't feel it. In addition, there is a bit of a more philosophical, but real nonetheless, issue of who we are refering to when we talk about awareness of pain and other things. The part of the brain that does the talking may be shut down during anesthesia and may not be aware of pain, but studies in split-brain patients (which appear in some ways to conist of two selves in one skull) have revealed that some parts of the brain can operate independently without having access to linguistic centers. Can these areas 'feel' pain? Probably, but they would not be able to tell you if they did. and talking to someone thus affected, you would never know that they were feeling pain (depending on where the pain stimulus was delivered) because self-awareness of such pain could be limited to the half of the brain which is incapable of communicating with others.

In any event, all I'm saying is that no one knows if a fish 'feels' pain, or what the conscious experience of an aversive stimulus is to a fish. And I doubt that anyone ever will. Of their own volition, they bite down on bony fish and swallow them hole and so on. I suspect that they do not have too many pain neurons in their mouth so I don't know how bad hooking them really is. Moreover, many of them do the same thing to other fish that we would do to them, so in a sense, by eating one fish (and perhaps inflicting pain on it in the process), other fish are spared a similar fate.

They do taste good.

-d-
 

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