First time without an instructor?

[IslandHopper]

Do you all realize that PADI, NAUI, SSI or whatever are just AGENCIES ?

They are not LAW or Regulations. It is perfectly legal for someone to go buy the equipment and dive without ANY formal training. The only thing the card really gets you is the ability to buy air-fills (otherwise you'd have to buy a compressor and do your own).

The same goes for diving at night, drift diving, deep diving, deco diving, etc... ANYONE can legally do it with NO training.

So saying someone is "not qualified" to do a night dive because they haven't taken the PADI course for it is kinda lame.

A person can certainly teach themselves how to do this stuff... there are plenty of texts available on the subjects.

Common sense says they should take more experienced divers with them as the learn new skills, but an instructor or DM is certainly not necessary ... nor is a piece of paper or plastic that "says" you can do this or that.

If a person wants to dive a certain way they should be able to... if you don't like it, don't dive with them. If they kill themselves being stupid, just think of it as "culling the herd".

I almost deleted this whole thing, but what the heck...

 

[DORSETBOY]

no there is no law against it, doesnt make it sensible though and lets also consider rescue service personnel involved in situations where people exceed their training and experience.

 

[DiveMistress2]

That brings up another huge topic altogether which and I don't even want to bother going there.

All I will say is that it's not just some piece of plastic card in your wallet. I'm not saying that you have to enlist in every course to be a good diver but when you are pursuing technical diving and your chance of death is significantly increased, perhaps some additional training is required.

OW vs. AOW, I'm sure conditions have a lot to do with it. You can't compare 80F water to our murky 50F water. It's just not the same.

And Islandhopper, that's fine & dandy to say, but in the event of the emergency, who is then held responsible for your safety? Why do instructors & divemasters pay so much liability insurance every year?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Do you all realize that PADI, NAUI, SSI or whatever are just AGENCIES ?

They are not LAW or Regulations. It is perfectly legal for someone to go buy the equipment and dive without ANY formal training. The only thing the card really gets you is the ability to buy air-fills (otherwise you'd have to buy a compressor and do your own).

One would hope that in the process of obtaining the card you will learn enough not to inadvertantly kill yourself under ideal circumstances ... and possibly come to realize how much knowledge there is to be gained out there.

Once you come to that realization, how you obtain the knowledge is a personal decision ... you can either gain it through continued classes, or by diving with "mentors" who will guide you in stages through more challenging situations as your knowledge and skills improve.

Either way, the imperative is to understand and prepare for the type of dive you're planning to do. This is one recreational activity where OJT can be fatal.

Reckless divers don't just endanger themselves ... they also endanger their dive buddy and anyone attempting to help them out of a bad situation.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

PS - From the sounds of things, BDB has chosen the "mentor" route. Nothing at all wrong with that, as long as you and your mentors use good judgement and extend your limits in planned stages. It's something I do regularly with new divers, although I also encourage them to continue their formal education.

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

One would hope that in the process of obtaining the card you will learn enough not to inadvertantly kill yourself under ideal circumstances ... and possibly come to realize how much knowledge there is to be gained out there.

Once you come to that realization, how you obtain the knowledge is a personal decision ... you can either gain it through continued classes, or by diving with "mentors" who will guide you in stages through more challenging situations as your knowledge and skills improve.

Either way, the imperative is to understand and prepare for the type of dive you're planning to do. This is one recreational activity where OJT can be fatal.

Reckless divers don't just endanger themselves ... they also endanger their dive buddy and anyone attempting to help them out of a bad situation.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

PS - From the sounds of things, BDB has chosen the "mentor" route. Nothing at all wrong with that, as long as you and your mentors use good judgement and extend your limits in planned stages. It's something I do regularly with new divers, although I also encourage them to continue their formal education.

I am and I will Bob . I thank you as well for your well put advice here on this thread . I appreciate your cander . AOW is next and I will be starting it in a week and a half. Then plan to move on to rescue from there . I havent decided on my speacialties yet for AOW was thinking wreck & night or maybe deep diving . Any suggestions here?

B.D.B.

 

[H2Andy]

i thought the most useful AOW skills were deep, night, wreck (touches on overhead)
and buoyancy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

BDB ... from the sounds of things I would definitely recommend some training in deep diving, and diving in overhead environments. Also, if you're really serious about diving deep, get the nitrox and advanced nitrox training ASAP. Nitrox ain't the gas you want to dive for going deep ... but it'll open up some new ways of thinking, and provide a pathway for learning about different breathing gasses for different types of diving.

Or (dare I say it?) look into getting into a DIR class ... it'll prove to be a real eye-opener for ya ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[H2Andy]

nitrox was a great class. i've read the DIR manual and there are some good
ideas there, mostly as to personal skills to have at various levels.

not sure i buy DIR's equipment party line. but hey... whatever floats yer boat

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

not sure i buy DIR's equipment party line. but hey... whatever floats yer boat

Me neither ... but there's lots of good stuff to learn from their approach without even thinking about the dress code.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

Me neither ... but there's lots of good stuff to learn from their approach without even thinking about the dress code.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Kewl thanx handy and Bob. Thats kinda what I was thinking about on the specialties. My instructor had suggested I would be a good candidate for nitrox. That was early on in the classes . He didn't seem to mention it to anyone else. I thought it was because I was an air hog . LOL... man I'm glad that has improved. I asked him later what he meant by that . That it would be good because I was ready to understand it, more so than those in the class with me. They still needed to absorb and practice what they had learned to get comfortable.I have definitely been bitten by the bug and diving is all I wanna do . I can't recall anything I have loved so much,being at such peace. If this is what the womb felt like I don't know why I ever came out.Maybe I was expecting it to be like flying down over a ledge at 70 - 100 '.
What a disappointment the terra firma was ya know.Ah but to return to a liquid existance . Now thats the life . I am really looking forward to exploring all the aspects of it I can. I have been a voracious sponge in this sport .I am logging dives quite fast and I don't see that changing. Heck some people with years of experience don't dive as often. I don't care if it's cold I don't care if the vis sucks I gotta be there ya know.not to mention I might as well get used to it because as a commercial diver in many cases the vis is 0.But I don't know I just rather enjoy it than let it bother me . It is good training imo though some just don't care for less than perfect conditions . I think that was the start of my dive buddies bad situation. He *****ed about it the night before while I was checking gear at 15'. All night I just dont like cold and all the neoprene yadda yadda yadda. Frankly I got sick of hearin it and told him I'm suitin up . He's like your goin in there now . I said yep and thought to myself it's the only way to get ya to shut up..lol. Hate when people gotta bum a camping trip out at the start. I go to get away from that ya know. Anyways thanx again...

B.D.B.

P.S. Bob I do realize that oxygen is toxic at depth . So that nitrox has m.o.d.s based on its percentage. I believe the maximum depth for the lowest mix is 160'. Below that my limited understanding is one would go to heli-ox? and or TRI-MIX?Is this correct albeit a very broad and general explanation?