First time without an instructor?

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

It's good for divers to get out of the comfort zone and take more responsiblity for their own diving without pro supervision. However, before diving in different conditions and/or with different equuipment it makes sense to be taught properly.
Why relearn from other divers mistakes, ie. why be so stupid as to do a night dive having never been taught the techniques and procedures involved. It's idiots who do things like that whom give diving a dangerous reputation.

Good thing I had already done 4 night dives .....
B.D.B.

 

[DORSETBOY]

...and presumably the 1st was with an instructor? or not I guess as you werent qualified for nite diving.

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

...and presumably the 1st was with an instructor? or not I guess as you werent qualified for nite diving.

I don't think it really makes a difference and I am done with this thread .
I have been reffered to here by one as immature and now being called an idiot by you. Enough is enough so quit with the over opinionated name calling .Your opinion means nothing when you try to belittle someone. I will tell ya both that if I was a paying student in your class and if you had spoke to me that way I damn sure wouldnt get my training from you.Why would I want to be insecure due to being badgered and belittled by my instructor. You are tactless yet you expect your comments to be taken seriously. PLEASE!
I woulda told ya both to stick it and went elsewhere immediately. I don't mind someone being hard but it's not nescessary to insult someone because you don't agree with what they are doing . I am alive and had fun despite the two of you trying to convince me what an immature dumbass I was . Had you done that to me in a class I assure you I would picket your business .You show as much compassion as a cattle boat crew rushing people . It would behoove you both to show a modicum of courtesey in your so called attempts to help some one. But apparantly that is to much to ask. Maybe you should evaluate your approach to teaching and rid yourselves of your own idiotic and immature tendencies before trying to assume and address someone elses. Wanna change the world start with yourself . If you have something to say to me you can speak to me like a human being . If you can't do that then go f*&% yourself . Your point is mute when you insult rather than teach. If I did nothing but listen to crap like this I would believe I wasn't even allowed to dive . Put up or shut up . You come to Austin and show me . But check your attitude or ya won't get much further than ya have here. I know your opinion would change if ya dove with me . At the bare minimum you would be surprised and if ya had any balls you would apologize. But hey you and I both know the fact that it won't happen denotes a preexisting condition known as castration is what you are suffering from. I will say a prayer tonight for all the UNICS of the world . But I wont be holding my breath waiting for you to show me . It would be safer to just keep diving...................


Got something to say (512) 282 - 0389 Damon = BALLS
Don't do it here on the boards . I am trying to read something usefull if ya don't mind. But save the insults and lets have an intelligent conversation.

B.D.B.

 

[8buck]

DbD hey man not to razz you anymore than everyone else already has But... If I was you I woould be diving with someone who has completed a rescue class and has passed. You can take the same class all you want but if something happened your s.o.l. ummmm and trust me dives i belive most instructors go over that after first set of o/w dives. I am in cave country well just south eagles nest is right next store and I dive all the time every week three or four times a week but you would not catch me doing anything i am not trained to do i am not talking about beach dives 18 to 20 feet like at venice beach looking for meg teeth or stuff like that but if you do not have the training for deep dives and deco and night diving then do not do it and whats up with a computer you do not use i use mine all the time nothing wrong with it there are great computers out now. the big one here is the vr3 nitrox, trimix, deco,change gas on the fly and games to play during deco bout time gets boring sometimes lol but have your table plan wrote down (slate). Anything can happen look up hal watts at forty fathom grotto. She was a experinced diver and at 118 passed out sprialed up to the suface and we are still trying to find out the rest. Just be careful and not so cocky..

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

DbD hey man not to razz you anymore than everyone else already has But... If I was you I woould be diving with someone who has completed a rescue class and has passed. You can take the same class all you want but if something happened your s.o.l. ummmm and trust me dives i belive most instructors go over that after first set of o/w dives. I am in cave country well just south eagles nest is right next store and I dive all the time every week three or four times a week but you would not catch me doing anything i am not trained to do i am not talking about beach dives 18 to 20 feet like at venice beach looking for meg teeth or stuff like that but if you do not have the training for deep dives and deco and night diving then do not do it and whats up with a computer you do not use i use mine all the time nothing wrong with it there are great computers out now. the big one here is the vr3 nitrox, trimix, deco,change gas on the fly and games to play during deco bout time gets boring sometimes lol but have your table plan wrote down (slate). Anything can happen look up hal watts at forty fathom grotto. She was a experinced diver and at 118 passed out sprialed up to the suface and we are still trying to find out the rest. Just be careful and not so cocky..

I have been careful and I do use my computer what I said was I don't rely on it totally I have a backup in my dive for redundancy.I still plan my dive because computers can go dead and such so then what. I still work the tables to know where I am on my repetitive dives because if the computer goes out I need to know how much nitrogen is still loaded based on my S.I.
There were rescue trained divers and instructors on the banks well as a back board and lots of cell phones . Also 2 divers that I know of for sure were emt's.TY for a kinder gentler post it was appreciated . You have shown respect for another human being and it as well as it's content is duely noted .
TY for a thoughtful reply and for looking out for me....
Damon

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

BDB,

160 ft, O2 decompression, staging tanks, pony bottle...no questions...

you may know what you're doing but it doesn't sound like it. No offense but it sounds like you are just unaware of just how much you don't know.

There are ways other than classes to learn and knowledge and experience are what's important. The one thing good about a class though is that at least it provides a list of the things you should know and the skills you should have.

And yes I admit I have a lot to learn but them calling me names is not the way to teach me anything. The sound is due to a lack of terminology at this point but hey gimme some time . There is more to the whole thing than whats been said here . Yet assumptions seem to fly wildly. Had it not been for me finding alot of useful things here I would have left the site based on people like this. They make it a waste of time for those of us trying to learn at an accelerated rate who are capable of a faster pace. The majority I have seen are not capable of that so as I said I can see why and understand but I won't sit here and be talked down to and called names due to assumptions. Look at the vast amount of explaining I have had to do . And why?
because people take things outta context and run with it.
Or just assume from 2 sentences they know the whole story.
So what is it i am supposed to gain from being told what I have already considered. Then along with it to have refrence made to my intelligence and mental age . I am practicing for a career here people. Get off my *** and tell me something besides take the classes and dont do this and dont do that. I am taking classes never said i wasn't going to never said I shouldnt.What the hell do you guys do read til ya get to something ya dont like in someones post and then begin replying w/o bothering to read it in it's entirity or understand fully what is being said. If your so freakin rich ya can pay for it all. I live paycheck to paycheck right now and doin all i can to make that work plus dive and learn get gear and pay for classes. cant take AOW w/o the gear.
So I put that first after my personal gear was paid off. Ya'll aint in my pocket . I am just doing the best i can . If ya wanna help help if not go the hell away . I dont need the b/s.Send me a book . Dive with me and show me a few things . Treat me like a person. Is that so hard to do or do stuck up noses prevail around here. I didn't have a bad impression of cavers when I got here but I'm beggining to understand why some do . I am beggining to feel the same way about bloated instructors who teach nothing . They forbid diving to 100' and call guppies names because thats what they see them as guppies.

You say there are ways other than classes but dont bother to give any info.
I am reading all I can as well as speaking with many people about the science of diving and taking what works and makes sense to heart . I get way more from diving and talking on the bank and at the dive shops than I get from the constant pucker factor here . Where are the whys? Rather than your stupid to do it . Wheres the well if your gonna do it it should be done this way and laying out the finer steps of a dive . Why not ask a question to find out something about whats happening before you assume I or anyone couldn't possibly know what to do.Shouldnt we be helping each other to stay alive by sharring all we can . I feel i have learned alot from people who wanna bring more into the sport of diving. But here it seems there is an abundance of people that save the obligatory welcome seem to be hell bent on turning those with a thirst for knowledge away from the sport or its more experienced individuals. I can see where many would go to learn alone because no one would dive with them because they are a new diver . Have watched it happen to people on the bank .But not to the extent its embraced here. I would take any new diver down with me at the dam park in Travis and let them run lines.
Why because I put those lines in. I know that the deepest wreck extends to 74' at the bow .Why do I dive at night there. Becuse there are lines I have lights and a compass . I have been down all the lines enough to do it blind folded. I like night diving more than during the day. If I were at a new spot I would always dive it during the day first where I planned to dive that night.
What else do I need to do about diving at night . I carry 3 lights. I use and dont lose my buddy. I have stopped buddies from missing safety stops when they were too boyant to stop on there own. I pick up glass and cans .I remove tangle hazards when I find them. I am trying to do my part . Why wont veterans do theres?I have been tangled and not panicked . Delt with it at the minimum of exertion . I am concious of my breathing . I check my gauges often . I was suiting a 30 year vetran and his o-ring was leaking before the boat dive he didn't hear it and I brought it to his attention. The o-ring was damaged and we pulled out the save a dive kit and fixed it. I carry a first aid kit. I know cpr . I GET IT !!!! I PAY ATTENTION!!! I check I recheck and then for good measure I check again. So if all there is to know is dont go to 100', I've heard it. Teach me something and quit borring me.Cause I done been there at night practicing skills . I got the T-shirt and I like it. Teach me something new. I'm not 12 year old Johnny just giving up his sassy pack. I don't panic and I'm not prone to. I don't fight cause I need my air.If i go to 100 I come up at 1500.110 I come up at 1600and so on. Common sense and a level head have served me well. Don't say I need knowledge offer some. Don't say I need training pay for it or come do it yourself pro bono. I'm not diving caves just depth . So lay it out for me how you approach it rather than telling me not to do it when I have been doing it for 2 months.Heck it's a bit late don't ya think . Do ya expect me to stop. Do you think I am incapable of understanding that 6 x 15% is equal to 90% oxy. on a full breath. And that at depth ox-tox is possible. But yet experienced divers that many call stupid.I am speaking of some deep divers I read about . are going to depths of 300 , 400 even 450 on air . Though I dont think its smart and would never do thisit tells me that the rec limit of 130' has a fair bit if not a large margin of safety. However I also understand that everyones physiology is different. I am not searching for ill effects but I have delved to as deep as i care to go on straight air. Also for the record I will not be below 130 on air again . It was fun but that is as far as I want to go I know have a margin of safety for me and know where my limits are based on the science and the practical knowledge that i have been a little beyond as far as I will ever be on reg air again . The depth part is over for me. I was looking for were narcosis began to normally effect me. I never found it .so science prevailed rather than experiencing that awkward moment I discovered I don't easily get narked.
now for aow wich i should ace.then I will begin training for my next class.
At some point through my classes in the next year I am sure I will meet the rapture but it wont be on air and will be in the controlled setting of a class intended to do that. My aow test on it should be close to doing the same skill on land I.E. lock combo and the like. I was asked today what it was about going deep for me. To be honest I don't know I just know I like it. I love cruising down the formations of rock shooting over a ledge feeling it open up I love the cold quiet flight or just hovering over a ledge and breathing out to drop slowly head first down it's ledge . Just creeping along and running across a sleeping bass sitting there with him for a few minutes and then drifting away from him as he remains there fading into obscurity. Then the best part is the ascent. the long treck up the bottom on a good wall is just fascinating to take in slowly creeping to 50% of max depth. Holding 1-3min then half again 1-3 then 15 ' to 500lbs then crawling up to 5' breathing down to 300 practicing my air consumption exercises and standing up. And before any one says your supposed to come up with 500. At 5' atmospheric pressure is not much more than 14.7 . No water will go in the tank this is common sense and a scientific fact . Preach all you want I been doing a/c work 14 years . All I do all day is work with pressures. I was aware of daltons law charles law and boyles law long before diving.
The o2 wasnt for the deco I said nitrox for deco and oxy in case of emergency the statement was made to be read respectively I guess I should have clarified. Any way what else can I tell you .It will just be picked apart and thigs will be spouted that arent within the realm of teaching and I just don't care to hear it. Thats not what I need nor is that why I started diving .Learning should be fun not a degrading and arduos task.

 

[DORSETBOY]

Sorry 'Blowing Da Bubble', I am not name calling but yes I am saying that your behaviour is stupid. People have died diving and anyone with common sense would learn from their mistakes, rather than risk themselves and importantly the rescue services. I certainly recognise that you PROBABLY wouldnt learn much from doing a night diving course given your experience now but it would have been far more sensible to have learnt the procedures in the first place before undertaking such diving.
I'm sorry if this offends but I have no wish to hear of more accidents from people encouraged to behave in such a manner.

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

Sorry 'Blowing Da Bubble', I am not name calling but yes I am saying that your behaviour is stupid. People have died diving and anyone with common sense would learn from their mistakes, rather than risk themselves and importantly the rescue services. I certainly recognise that you PROBABLY wouldnt learn much from doing a night diving course given your experience now but it would have been far more sensible to have learnt the procedures in the first place before undertaking such diving.
I'm sorry if this offends but I have no wish to hear of more accidents from people encouraged to behave in such a manner.

nor do I and I ty for a much more personable response.

Damon

 

[DiveMistress2]

Hey there BDB,

I think what concerns people is that you appear as being reckless when you disregard the advantages of training in a course atmosphere. With this being said, we are unaware of how your gear configuration, what you're diving & if you've ever done practice dives in full gear config to perfect your buoyancy in 300lbs of gear.

What particularly concerns me is that you are pushing yourself into deco without any formal training. As someone who has taken the advanced nitrox & deco courses, I would advise you that this is not recommended. There is more to this course other than wearing a stage bottle.

To give you an opportunity to set the record straight, please confirm that when pushing yourself into deco you at least wearing doubles, understand how to do shut downs & their purpose, have practiced doing stage drops, that you wear your dive plan & backup plans on your slate, have a backup mast in your thigh pocket, and most importantly that you know how to do a deco dive plan without a computer.

Have you ever been pushed to the limit with multi tasking to see how you would react? By this, I mean has your instructer ever asked you to deploy a lift bag while switching gases & buddy breathing at the same time? Have you ever had to switch to your backup mask in freezing water at 130 ft?

This is something that you need to do under the supervision of a qualified instructor so that you know your limits and can then expand upon them. When I took this course I had about 250 logged dives & it was surprising how I felt when overloaded with tasks & it was a great lesson that I don't think I could have learned elsewhere safely. This is the power of training.

 

[Blowin Da Bubbl]

First off I would like to thank you for speaking to me like a human being. I appreciate that and the fact that you are asking me instead of telling me.

Hey there BDB,

I think what concerns people is that you appear as being reckless when you disregard the advantages of training in a course atmosphere. With this being said, we are unaware of how your gear configuration, what you're diving & if you've ever done practice dives in full gear config to perfect your buoyancy in 300lbs of gear.

With that said I always dive with all of my gear . The only thing that changes is the suit. I know what weight I need for each . With a tee shirt and shorts 10lbs is sufficient. With a 3 mil. shorty 15-16 lbs is plenty. In a 6.5 shorty I like around 22 - 24lbs. When in a full 6.5 farmer and jacket 34 with 4 of that as 2lbs ankle weights. I dive a viper reg set with an oceanic triple console with computer. Current B.C. is a vector origin but looking into tech. B.C.'s.
I would like to get a harness and back plate probably steel to drop some of the lead and a dual bladder.I think I stated what my boyancy and trim has been like . I do test and adjust when adding or changing gear as indicated by knowing what I need for wet suits . I do pool work on my own for this purpose.
I have uk lights c8 ,sl4 , mini q-40 which I love on my mask as well as a tank light. A good dive knife mounted on my bc . I prefer it this way for ease of access. I have mares 2 channel fins but want the quatros and possibly some split fins. 2 crystal view masks by scubaprosoft weight belt with 8 pockets. I rent my tanks and suits for now.I use a console clip but will be getting a retractor.Clip on surgical tube octo holder. 30 cube pony front mount w/short hose for pressure gauge and scuba pro reg. I'm not a reef wrecker it's all pretty streamlined but there are a few more improvements I would like to make.


What particularly concerns me is that you are pushing yourself into deco without any formal training. As someone who has taken the advanced nitrox & deco courses, I would advise you that this is not recommended. There is more to this course other than wearing a stage bottle.

Unfortunately the guy who was comming from Houston to train me's mom fell ill and was hospitalized . He had to fly to North Carolina to be with her. So I did not do the deco.He is an instructor but it wasn't a class per say he was helping me and was interested in teaching me to DIR.

To give you an opportunity to set the record straight, please confirm that when pushing yourself into deco you at least wearing doubles, understand how to do shut downs & their purpose, have practiced doing stage drops, that you wear your dive plan & backup plans on your slate, have a backup mast in your thigh pocket, and most importantly that you know how to do a deco dive plan without a computer.

No I must say I wasn't planning on doing doubles . Rather I was planning on hp 100cubes at 4500psi . I have on singles turned my tank off and on in ow and know wich direction to turn the valve . As far as reasons for doing it the only thing that comes to mind is an uncontrollable free flow but Im sure there are reasons with doubles I will learn during a class about switching on the iso bar and such as well as other problems that can arise.We were planning on practicing drops early saturday before undertaking the actual dive to depth.I stated earlier that I plan my dives and slate them then use my computer and a seperate bottom timer . If the computer goes out I use slate and bt I dont know what a mask is but taking the word back up out of context i am assuming a typo and I keep my mask on my hip. Is this the wrong place? Or should I have it somewhere else? I dont have a thigh pocket . What would you suggest?And yes I am capable of understanding a plan and I usually follow them a bit coservatively.

Have you ever been pushed to the limit with multi tasking to see how you would react? By this, I mean has your instructer ever asked you to deploy a lift bag while switching gases & buddy breathing at the same time? Have you ever had to switch to your backup mask in freezing water at 130 ft?

I have never used a lift bag. Never used any other gases just air but I am capable of switching regs with my eyes closed , mask flooded or sharring air.
Cold water doesnt bother me I dive 50 degree water in a 6.5 shorty. I like the cold water on my face and am content to sit there with my mask off and reg out blowing tiny bubbles for quite some time no rush at all . I have changed masks I know where its at and can access it easily regaurdless of depth. My instructor had me sharring air with my buddy and flooded my mask turned of my air and purged it out on me holding the reg in my face . I laughed at him the whole time held onto my buddy turned on my air and cleared my mask checked myself and my buddy asked if he was ok we both oked and the istructor asked as well we oked him. he messed with me more than the others to see if it was a front . He found out I was at ease after many attempts to panic me.

This is something that you need to do under the supervision of a qualified instructor so that you know your limits and can then expand upon them. When I took this course I had about 250 logged dives & it was surprising how I felt when overloaded with tasks & it was a great lesson that I don't think I could have learned elsewhere safely. This is the power of training.

As i said the man I was doing it with was an instructor. Also there were 2 emt's on sight and certified rescue divers 3 I believe total.I did a 146 ' dive and did not inccur a deco. Began my ascent at 1800 psi starting at 70 for 1 min . then 35 for 3 min. then 15 for 8 min . to 500 psi then laid at 5 feet practicing breathing exercises to 350 psi. and stood up. I do not plan to be below 130 again on air. I did not go looking for ill effects but I did wanna see if I was very suseptable to getting narked as I had not been to this point. I found out I was not very susceptable.I went to 130' as well my buddy and I decided to surface because of his air being at 1500. We checked each other oked and thumbed up for the ascent but he seemed off I suspected he was a bit narked so i was glad to go . About 6' up he got pulled back down to 130'. Apparantly he had hung 3 seperate lines of monofiliment. Before I knew it he had silted us out. He had been fighting the mono and couldnt see . Now with vertigo he was panicing and over breathed his regs. He said they werent delivering air anymore . By this time I had swam in behind him grabbing his valve for my own protection . I let him know I was there and got him calm. He had burned alot of air so I gave him my long hose and began cutting the lines. we got stable and I asked if he was ok he signaled OK then I gave the thumbs upwe ascended to 65 and he was around 900 psi I was now at 1500 his breathing was back to normal and hand signals were firm again.1 min stop Then to 35 3 min with him on his reg again. 15 ' for 5 min.
then crawled to 5' and stood up when he hit 450psi. Neither of us suffered any ill effects and the problem was dealt with calmly. This could have been a really bad situation but if I didnt feel able to help the person I was with then I have no bussiness being there . If ever I get a hint of feeling that way I would call the dive . It's not a question for me of will a problem arise it's when and it is emmbeded in my mind that cooler heads prevail. If I don't understand a dive I wont dive . How is training done ya have em read it then ya tell em then ya show em then they show you then you go do it only thing missing in the plan that we had was money as the first step. Thank you for asking questions instead of telling me and assuming anything . Now because I am not interested in the approach taken by some others on this thread I am not really interested in hearing what they have to say save one that apologized and meant well but needs to lose the stupid thing .Kinda cheapens it.
Anyway I would be happy to accept and discuss this with you dive mistress and am open to answers from you on what I did right here and what you might do different with what I have covered here. Thank you again for treating me with respect you have gained mineand the floor is yours.

B.D.B.