First time gear buyer - Question about Halycon?

[mr_jmac]

Hi,

I just discovered this site ... it is awesome!

I am currently purchasing gear for myself (BC and reg system) ... I have been renting to date.

I had never heard of the BP & Wing system before visiting a local DIR dive shop and using this site. I was certified through a regular OW PADI Instructor.

Since I like to thouroughly research products before I make a big purchase I have a few concerns.

I like the idea of a simpler more streamlined system than a conventional jacket BCD ...

1) Do you have to use the DIR system of regulator hook-ups? Does anyone use the BP & Wing system but have the conventional primary reg/octo and SPG system?

2) Is there a higher risk of the system coming loose compared to conventional BCDs? A conventional BCD has the velcro belt in the front and a snapping clip. The Halcon has only a weight belt type clip in the front.

3) With the crotch strap ... how does this affect putting on and taking off a weight belt. I'm assuming the weight belt is put on after the harness/crotch strap is put on. This would make the open water skill of taking off the BCD at the surface impossible to do... since you would have to remove your weight belt?

4) Comfort? Is the backplate uncomfortable right on your back compared to a BCD which can be padded?

5) When at the surface and not using the primary reg (i.e just floating /swimming/using snorkel) In the DIR setup, any problems with the extra long hose (5') hanging to far down getting tangled etc. Or does it stay wrapped around your neck and hang in front by your chest?


All comments/help is appreciated.

Later,
Joe

 

[divedivedive!]

Just like to make it clear that I'm not DIR - I just bought what felt best underwater and best suited my needs. I'm very much a tropical open waters diver with little threat of entanglement or confinement by overhead environments. So I buy what best streamlines me and go with the configuration which while not safety-optimal is most sensible in my area.

1) Do you have to use the DIR system of regulator hook-ups? Does anyone use the BP & Wing system but have the conventional primary reg/octo and SPG system?

You have to follow their system if you're going DIR, of course, so that you and your buddy have matching configurations. But I use the short hose primary and (horror!) the Sherwood Shadow+, sort of like an integrated power inflator-cum-octopus. Works for me. One less hose, and its always exactly where I know it is.

2) Is there a higher risk of the system coming loose compared to conventional BCDs? A conventional BCD has the velcro belt in the front and a snapping clip. The Halcon has only a weight belt type clip in the front.

Actually, I swapped my buckle for a quick-release, its easier that way. And even if it breaks (or the weight belt-type buckle comes loose), it still stays on because of the snug fit of the arm straps, and the rigidity of the b/p. See, while this is the one failure point on a b/p/w combo, conventional BCs have failure points all over - on the arm strap, on the waist, as well as anywhere where the bond is made by stitching. The continuous harness of the b/p negates this.

3) With the crotch strap ...

Can't answer this, since with the weight of my AL b/p and STA I don't wear any ditchable weights.

4) Comfort? Is the backplate uncomfortable right on your back compared to a BCD which can be padded?

Oh no, not at all. It fits perfectly, and you'll notice that padding really is an unnecessary thing that just adds weight, buoyancy, bulk, and messes your streamlining.

5) In the DIR setup, any problems with the extra long hose (5')...

Can't answer, I use the short hose.

I think my entire point is - if you're buying it just on its merits (streamlining, lack of failure points, flexiblilty in upgrading, etc) and not because you want to be DIR-compliant, the b/p and wings set-up is still the best choice I could think of, in any environment or type of use.

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[tombiowami]

1) Do you have to use the DIR system of regulator hook-ups? Does anyone use the BP & Wing system but have the conventional primary reg/octo and SPG system?


No, you can use a Bp/wings without getting near anything DIR. You can use any reg system you want. And short primary hoses are Ok in easy OW settings in DIR. I personally like the DIR system though.





2) Is there a higher risk of the system coming loose compared to conventional BCDs? A conventional BCD has the velcro belt in the front and a snapping clip. The Halcon has only a weight belt type clip in the front.

Dry land logic will generally only make matters worse underwater. There is no one who does highly technical dives in a jacket BC, when people need to depend on their gear, they go bp/wings. Part of DIR is to not create more problems because of perceived problems or lack of skill.





3) With the crotch strap ... how does this affect putting on and taking off a weight belt. I'm assuming the weight belt is put on after the harness/crotch strap is put on. This would make the open water skill of taking off the BCD at the surface impossible to do... since you would have to remove your weight belt?


Just take the weight belt off. No big deal. Or cut it off. Part of DIR is diving with people who care about you and how to be of assistance. It is easy to think DIR is just about some gear config from certain companies. It is kind of like the tip of the iceburg. Most of it is in water skills and buddy awareness and planning.




4) Comfort? Is the backplate uncomfortable right on your back compared to a BCD which can be padded?

Back to dry land logic. Forget what it looks like, you want something that will help you be a better diver. No need for padding, it just creates drag. (and LOOKS more comfy, so it will sell better in the store. I love capitalism too, but you have a choice....)



5) When at the surface and not using the primary reg (i.e just floating /swimming/using snorkel) In the DIR setup, any problems with the extra long hose (5') hanging to far down getting tangled etc. Or does it stay wrapped around your neck and hang in front by your chest?

Generally you would attach a bolt snap to the primary reg and just attach it to your right chest d ring. No problem. I would recommend the 7' hose personally, and tuck the extra in the BP webbing.

Good questions! You may want to get the DIR Fundamentals book, it will answer a lot of questions you have.


Tommy

 

[Wendy]

If you are wanting this system for its comfort and streamlining in the water, then I would recommend (while it might not be necessary for your diving) to get at least the 5' hose. When the reg isn't in your mouth then you would clip it off to your right sholder d-ring. I recommend the backup reg being placed on a bungee around your neck. You will always know where it is, and it keeps it from creating any drag (like if it were clipped off to your side or anywhere else). The backplate is very comfortable, you don't even feel it. The harness is very secure an I have never had one come loose or come off. With the crotch strap, I wear my weight belt under the harness. I asked George Irvine about this and he said that while it is technically wrong and that in a wetsuit your weight belt should be worn over your harness, he did say it was ok to wear it under if I didn't mind the 2-step process of removal rather than the one step (the 2-step removal being unclip it and then pulling it free of the harness), it is more comfortable under the harness too. And if it does come loose on a dive then it will hang on the crotch strap until you can fix it, better than your weights ditching you without notice I think.

Get the Fundamentals bookif you are interested in being DIR, but you don't have to be DIR to dive this set up.

 

[ChrisM]

1) Do you have to use the DIR system of regulator hook-ups? Does anyone use the BP & Wing system but have the conventional primary reg/octo and SPG system?

Don't forget, you can dive how you like, so the answer is no, but I guarantee that if you ever do try the bungee and long hose, you will like that better.


2) Is there a higher risk of the system coming loose compared to conventional BCDs? A conventional BCD has the velcro belt in the front and a snapping clip. The Halcon has only a weight belt type clip in the front.


No, in fact I would venture to say that you will sooner run into a broken plastic clip than a metal buckle coming undone. Besides, you can dive with the buckle undone, it ain't going anywhere.

3) With the crotch strap ... how does this affect putting on and taking off a weight belt. I'm assuming the weight belt is put on after the harness/crotch strap is put on. This would make the open water skill of taking off the BCD at the surface impossible to do... since you would have to remove your weight belt?


Most people wear theri weight belt under the crotch strap, configured so weights can be dropped. You want to make ditching weights a conscious decision, not an accident.

4) Comfort? Is the backplate uncomfortable right on your back compared to a BCD which can be padded?

Lose the pad. You won't even know the BP is there. Sure, it looks like torture, but it's not.

5) When at the surface and not using the primary reg (i.e just floating /swimming/using snorkel) In the DIR setup, any problems with the extra long hose (5') hanging to far down getting tangled etc. Or does it stay wrapped around your neck and hang in front by your chest?

1. DOn't use a snorkel if you are going to use a long hose. Depolyoment and entanglement problems.
2. As others have said, long hose is clipped off when not in use. You should use stainless steel bolt snaps. Note that some stores will sell you "SS" snaps that have other alloys for the springds. You want full SS. This may sound liek techno geek stuff (it did to me at one time), but once you have felt the way true SS snaps work, as opposed to mixed versions, it's a world of difference.

Have fun
Chris