First stage clone chart

[Couv]

Could a mod please make this thread a sticky?

Similar to the "First stage chart", this thread is aimed at collecting data on each regulator's origin of manufacture so that when service and parts are required one can turn to this chart to find a retailer, service and parts vendor or perhaps service manuals common to all the clones (if any.)

Personally I only own one brand and a couple of models of regulators, so for the information below I welcome any corrections and additions.

We could use a modification of Scubaroo's excellent format such as this:


OEM: Ocean Divers Supply
Model: RG-1009
Clones:
1. Dive Rite RG3500
2. Salvo SR3
3.Sea Elite XO6

OEM: Ocean Divers Supply
Model: RG-1001
Clones:
1. Sea Elite DR3
2. etc

OEM: TUSA
Model: TUSA Imprex 400
Clones:
1. Scuba Pro MK 5
2. etc

Thank you,

couv

 

[mike_s]

The ScubaMax 1st and 2nd stages are Ocean Divers Supply OEM's also. (they even use the same part numbers)

 

[deepblueme]

Funny TUSA being the OEM and the MK5 being the clone.

 

[Couv]

Actually I got that a bit wrong. Tabata is the MFG. Tusa = Tabata USA

 

[mattjm]

Hi,

this is my first post here (hi!) and my comment doesn't apply so much to regs in particular as to OEM manufacturers and re-branding in general.

I've talked to folks that deal in this OEMs and re-branding for other products, and their position is that while OEMs may make the products for their buyers (and they may be very similar), there is a certain amount of "speccing" by the buyer that will affect the final product. For example Kirkland (Costco) brand tires are (or at least were) made by BF Goodrich, but they're not the exact same tires BF Goodrich makes--Goodrich makes tires for a lot of buyers and buyers can specify particular rubber compositions, etc.

What I'm wondering is if this applies to the reg industry. If so, while two regs may have the same OEM, we would want to be aware that the overall quality or performance could vary slightly from brand to brand. I also wonder if this might affect exactly which parts kits should be used with which regs (if sealing surfaces are spec'ed to different hardnesses, it might).

Thanks for starting this thread!

Matt

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I don't think the "OEM" term really fits the way you are using it.

For example it is not accurate to state that Tabata is the "OEM" for the Scubapro Mk 5 (or for that matter the Scubapro Mk 16, the Air 2 or any other SP reg that SP contracted with Tabata to manufacture.) Tabata is only the company that Scubapro contracted with to manufacture those regulators, but the design and engineering work was done by Scubapro and Scubapro owns the rights to the designs.

Once the exclusive rights expired, Tabata marketed slightly cosmetically altered but mechanically identical versions of the Mk 5, Mk 16 and Generation 3 Air 2 for distribution through TUSA (Tabata USA). This was no doubt the original intent and I supect Scaubapro gets a better price on the contract by allowing Tabata to make licensed copies after X number of years.

I am also certain that Ford and Chevy do not actually manufacture all their "OEM" parts either - they contract a large percentage of the parts production to outside companies who then produce parts under contract to the "OEM" specs provided by Ford or Chevy and ship them to the designated assembly plants.

So if you apply your Tabata/Scubapro "OEM" argument to automakers, you would have to say that Chevy is just producing clones of the "Billy Bob Fiberglass and Machine Parts Company" Corvette. Regardless of who makes the parts to Chevy's OEM specs, the design and the car is still a Chevy. In fact Chevy may approve and contract for the same Corvette parts from several "OEM" sources to ensure adequate supply and as a hedge against supply or quality control problems that could result in major production delays or quality issues if only a single source were used.

So drop the OEM language and your thread will make a lot more sense.

 

[Couv]

The purpose of this thread is to provide the forum participants with information about:


1. Alternatives to name brand regulators.
2. Alternatives to name brand regulator parts/service vendors.
3. Finding service manuals applicable to regulators even if they are not the same brand.

(For instance, I was having a problem obtaining a part for a SP regulator. I got a TUSA part that is fully interchangeable and was able to by-pass the whole business of my LDS wanting to special order the part, install the part, charge me for labor to install it ... do an un-needed annual service...we all know the routine.)

OEM= Original Equipment Manufacture....hence the reason I used that acronym. I accept that it may not be the most logical choice of terms, so whatever will work for the thread.

We can drop OEM and just put:
1. Clone x
2. Clone y
3. Clone z

Additionally, please, pretty please, let's use another thread to argue the point about minor details of re-branding. If a regulator is not a suitable choice, i.e. the piston, diaphragm, etc are not the same and the rebuild parts and methods do not apply, there is little use in listing it as a clone....let's keep it practical.


Thank you,

c

 

[mike_s]

(For instance, I was having a problem obtaining a part for a SP regulator. I got a TUSA part that is fully interchangeable and was able to by-pass the whole business of my LDS wanting to special order the part, install the part, charge me for labor to install it ... do an un-needed annual service...we all know the routine.)

Note.... just because they are a clone doesn't mean that all their parts are 100%interchangable.

For example, Dive Rite uses Ocean Divers Supply to OEM their first stages, but according to other posts on here and Deco Stop by Jordan from DiveRite, they have made some DR specific changes to the internals in a few cases that make them unique. For example the RG1208 has a thicker diaphram or something than the comparible SeaElite or Salvo first stage does, which helps with the Intermediate Pressure problems at higher pressures...

reference The Deco Stop and The Deco Stop and The Deco Stop (this who thread covers several posts on it)

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It gets worse. I have seen 3 variants of the Scubapro R190 that were all called "R190" but the first iteration has a totally unique poppet design while the other two have inlet fittings that differ in minor respects. And then of course I have seen clones that are identical to the "different" version od the R190 which really makes you wonder who did what when and creates an issue where parts for one have little commonality with the other.

On the other hand, the Scubapro Mk 5 and the TUSA version are identical designs, but still may use different parts. Scubapro developed a concave seat for their later Mk 10 first stage but it retrofits into the Mk 5 and is considered to to be the current OEM part for the Mk 5. The TUSA on the other hand used the older flat seat design but, as with the Mk 5, the new SP concave seat will work as a direct replacement part.

So sometimes the parts differences matter and sometimes they do not.

 

[Luis H]

On the other hand, the Scubapro Mk 5 and the TUSA version are identical designs, but still may use different parts.

The TUSA swivel retainer screw is larger than the MK-5 swivel retainer screw.

I am sure you all recall the issue with the swivel retainer on the MK-5 breaking. I tried finding a stainless steel replacement (or making replacements), but the TUSA equivalent part I much bigger.

I don’t have with me the different thread sizes, but I can look them up at home. The size of the TUSA “MK-5 clone” is probably similar to the larger swivel screws used on the newer Scubapro regulators.