First Reg - overwhelmed

[paulw]

Ignore the B.S. about spending more because the reg is your "lifeline". It's the oldest sales trick in the book, and it's flat out wrong.

Well I offered my "B.S." opinion because I actually believe it and you sir are welcome to your opinion. I don't sell equipment so I don't get your using the "oldest sales trick in the book" comment because I do believe that a quality reg is more dependable in the long run. All regs do not breath the same and all good equipment doesn't have to be expensive, I bought my Aqualung Legend LX Supreme brand new for $350.00 and a quick search found one for $429.00 on the first page. Expensive is a different number for everyone and I agree $429.00 isn't cheap and you are correct one might pick up a good used one and have it serviced but $429.00 also isn't overly expensive for a great piece of equipment that will last a lifetime.
I offered my honest opinion and stand by it and you offered yours and I am sure you stand by yours also, no B.S just opinions.

Paul

 

[halocline]

Well I offered my "B.S." opinion because I actually believe it and you sir are welcome to your opinion. I don't sell equipment so I don't get your using the "oldest sales trick in the book" comment because I do believe that a quality reg is more dependable in the long run. All regs do not breath the same and all good equipment doesn't have to be expensive, I bought my Aqualung Legend LX Supreme brand new for $350.00 and a quick search found one for $429.00 on the first page. Expensive is a different number for everyone and I agree $429.00 isn't cheap and you are correct one might pick up a good used one and have it serviced but $429.00 also isn't overly expensive for a great piece of equipment that will last a lifetime.
I offered my honest opinion and stand by it and you offered yours and I am sure you stand by yours also, no B.S just opinions.

Paul

Well, I need to apologize for my tone, B.S. is a little harsh, but the bit about "spend more, it's your lifeline" really irks me because it is constantly used to up-sell new divers, and the implication that spending more on a regulator will make your diving safer is utterly false. It's something that gets tossed around dive shops and this forum frequently. I realize you are not personally trying to sell regulators, but you are perpetuating this myth by posting it on a public forum. And, the contention that more expensive or higher end models are more reliable, meaning less likely to fail, is equally false. These things are not really 'opinions'; there simply is zero evidence that there is any sort of correlation between regulator price and reliability, and likewise zero evidence that there is any correlation between regulator cost and diver safety.

There is also zero evidence that higher end or more expensive regs last any longer than base models made by reputable companies. That's because they don't! All scuba regulators made by reputable companies should last decades with normal use and care. The limiting factor to their life is typically abuse or lack of support by the company that made them. I often use 30+ year old regs by choice, and they perform as well as they did when new.

Higher end regs do breathe better, and that's a good reason to buy them if it's important to you. But advising a new diver (like the one that started this thread) to spend more because it'll last a lifetime and because it's "your lifeline" is simply not based in any factual reality.

But you are right, I could have been nicer about the way I said it!

 

[elan]

There is some great advise here so I'll throw my O2 in, I would spend the money and buy a good reg to start with (ie Aqualung Legend - Apeks XTX200 - Atomic M1 or B2) :

First it will just plain breath better giving you a much better dive experience
Second it will be more dependable (it is your lifeline) and last a lifetime
.

Why would a simple reg would be less dependable than top of the line complex with all gismos reg ? It's just does not make sense. Reg with titan and mk2 types of design exist for tens of years. MK2 would not still be on the market if it was not dependable. It was discussed many times here but considering a reg as a lifeline gets one into trouble.

 

[Lopez116]

You two are kinda hitting on my unspoken motivation to this post and I appreciate the competing viewpoints. Because it is so obviously my lifeline while underwater, I don't want to cut corners and buy a used reg that is potentially dangerous. At the same time, I don't want to blindly interpret price as a proxy for quality.

Are rental regs GENERALLY worse than most of the regs on the market? It seems like on every dive trip I (or someone else) get one that free flows. I imagine that even if I get a less-expensive reg, but maintain it meticulously, it would perform better than a rental. Thoughts?

 

[elan]

Because it is so obviously my lifeline while underwater, I don't want to cut corners and buy a used reg that is potentially dangerous.

I think those are two points that halocline was trying to debunk in his posts.

In my own experience I had a reg that I paid 400 for and it was free-flowing in cold water although it sold as a cold water reg. On the other side I recently dove with a used reg that I paid $80 for and if was performing flawless in 36f although it is not the best reg for the cold water. So buying new does not shield you form the problems.

 

[farsidefan1]

If you are only going to dive depths of 30' - 60', then I would recommend the Scubapro MK2 plus standard piston w/ a R295.

Hmmm, what would be a fair price? I just happen to have that outfit which I replaced with my Atomic B-2. It is bulletproof and an excellent regulator. It does not have a backup reg as I use an air II. It has about 150 dives on it. I never had a problem with it although the coldest water it ever saw was 76 degrees in the red sea. I never noticed any problems breathing down to 140 feet in the blue hole and never had ANY issues.
I'm a photo nazi in that I totally avoid touching anything except sand and bare rock so when I want to shoot something where I need to get low I invert and drop head down to get the shot and don't touch anything. Take a deeper breath and up I go. I never had any problem breathing while inverted although I don't stay that way long.
I just had to go for the newer zippier model. Those who have seen my posts about my mask travails understand . If you are interested and want it serviced I am the original owner and could get it done under the new owners warranty. Pm me if interested.

 

[halocline]

You two are kinda hitting on my unspoken motivation to this post and I appreciate the competing viewpoints. Because it is so obviously my lifeline while underwater, I don't want to cut corners and buy a used reg that is potentially dangerous. At the same time, I don't want to blindly interpret price as a proxy for quality.

Are rental regs GENERALLY worse than most of the regs on the market? It seems like on every dive trip I (or someone else) get one that free flows. I imagine that even if I get a less-expensive reg, but maintain it meticulously, it would perform better than a rental. Thoughts?

The first thing you need to realize is that your life does not depend on your regulator. If you dive in such a manner as to die in the event of a reg failure, you probably should not have been certified to dive. Safe diving ALWAYS includes a back up air supply, whether it's a buddy, or in the case of advanced (solo and/or technical) diving, redundant equipment.

Since dive safety depends on your judgement and behavior, NOT your regulator, used regs are not in any way more dangerous than new ones. However, used regs might need to be thoroughly inspected and maybe serviced before you should dive with them. Actually the same is true for new regs, although they certainly should not need rebuilding, maybe only adjustment for best performance. It's just that buying a new reg from a dealer typically includes that inspection and adjustment. Not always......but the point is that buying a used reg does mean getting it inspected and maybe serviced right when you buy it. But that's for convenience; you don't want to lose a dive or cut one short because your reg fails, and you want to enjoy diving without worrying about your gear. These are reasonable considerations, but it's not about safety, unless you dive in a risky manner.

Whatever you buy, you will need to get it serviced eventually. Serviceability is really important, and it's not always easy to evaluate a service technician. It's not difficult to service regulators, but it does take some care and attention to detail.

Rental regs are usually lower-end models like sherwoods, sometimes MK2s, often unbalanced piston regs with unbalanced downstream 2nd stages. These are typically very reliable and can withstand a lot of abuse, which they often get in a rental fleet. They can easily go out of adjustment and free flow, so can any reg, but rentals just lead a tougher life than privately owned regs.

But, for example, if regulators were really responsible for a diver's life, do you think anyone would dare to rent them out? Any idea what the liability would be on this? They free-flow, or a hose bursts, or maybe the mouthpiece falls off. What happens? The renter simply shares air, switches to an octo, and surfaces, probably pretty annoyed, but definitely not dead.

 

[theduckguru]

There is plenty of consumer reports online.

Gear / Accessories | Scuba Diving Magazine

I'm looking to purchase my first reg seg. I have about 35 dives or so under my belt and am planning to try to dive more frequently. I'm mostly a warm water vacation diver, but I shore dive locally on SoCal as well.

I have no plans to go beyond recreational diving and no intentions of going below about 80' (most dives in the 30'- 60' range).

I want to buy my first setup (reg/octo/guages) and frankly am overwhelmed my the number of options out there. I would like to buy used if possible and not spend too much money. I've only ever dove with rentals so am not sure what to expect in terms of performance of my own reg.

I saw a few Edge Epic sets going for about $140 on eBay (no guages), an Oceanic Alpha 8 set for about 125, and then some Aqualung Titan (older models) going for about 200 ish (with guages).


Any advice/suggestions on where to start would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[paulw]

Wow, look what I started. Lopez1 I apologize for getting your thread hijacked, I simply stated my true opinion and had no idea it would go here. I have been diving many years and had several reg's and found that they are not all the same and that the better breathing regs made my dives loads more enjoyable but unfortunately the ones I found I really liked were priced higher. That is all I was trying to get across, you ask our opinion on where you should start and I gave mine. What I guess I didnt make clear is I think you should not just go by price and pick one that you like even if it is a little more than you planned. To me a $350.00 to $500.00 reg is not cheap but isn't extremely expensive but I also know people who believe it is, your opinion there is all that counts for you. I did not mean to insinuate that any reg of lesser cost was not dependable only that the models I listed were.
I love to dive and am lucky enough to have equipment I truly enjoy and hope you find just what you are looking for.
Once again I am sorry for getting your thread hijacked I should have chosen my words more wisely.

Paul

 

[Lopez116]

Paul, no need to apologize. I like hearing different perspectives. That's the true value of this forum.