First reg, need to buy two, rec diver

[cerich]

There's a big difference between a newly trained OW diver and one with technical training, but it is still a characteristic with balanced first and second stages. You will also be packing a lot more gas as a tech diver and much more aware of your dive plan and consumption.

Another option that negates the "warning" advantage of an unbalanced regulators is to carry a redundant gas supply. That can take many forms that use a second regulator and cylinder including a pony, independent doubles, or Progressive Equalization.

the whole argument that having increased breathing resistance as a good thing is basically admiring that you didn't know your RMV, plan your dive and dive the plan, check gas while diving against said plan etc. I couldn't disagree more with the "logic" that argument is based on.

 

[Akimbo]

the whole argument that having increased breathing resistance as a good thing is basically admiring that you didn't know your RMV, plan your dive and dive the plan, check gas while diving against said plan etc. ...

You have just described the VAST majority of recreational divers in the world that have not received some advanced training. Ask any charter boat crew in the tropics; some are lucky if they remember how to put their regulator on the valve.

I couldn't disagree more with the "logic" that argument is based on.

It helps to understand that this logic was standard operating procedure before SPGs and balanced first stage regulators were available, or widely used. That and the fact that we were trained to safely perform free-assents are the main reasons that 3/4 of us didn’t kill ourselves in the 1950s and 60s.

Nobody even heard of Octos and a significant percentage of the regulators were double hoses. We "usually" had a depth gauge and watch. We also knew that a single LP-72 was rarely large enough to get into decompression and repeds were limited to two dives/day... with Navy tables anyway.

Like I wrote: Getting distracted, losing sight of your buddy, or forgetting your training shouldn't be a death sentence. Darwin may not agree but I'm sticking to it.

• Do I wish that all Diving 101 courses included the academic and practical training to prevent the problem? Hell yes!
• Is that a reality? Sadly, no.
• Does running low on air with an unbalanced regulator teach you to monitor the dive better? It's a lot more memorable than the "monitor your computer" mantra.

 

[halocline]

the whole argument that having increased breathing resistance as a good thing is basically admiring that you didn't know your RMV, plan your dive and dive the plan, check gas while diving against said plan etc.

Unfortunately you have just described some new divers....

I would not specifically buy (or recommend) an unbalanced regulator for a new diver because of the 'warning' effect, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing either. Actually, on my MK2/R190, I don't even notice much increased resistance until it gets below 300 PSI, so it's not much of a warning anyway, especially at depth.

Balanced, unbalanced, whatever....they all do the job. If your company can start to break up the dumb dealer-instructor model that puts new divers in titanium MK25s, more power to you!

 

[cerich]

You have just described the VAST majority of recreational divers in the world that have not received some advanced training. Ask any charter boat crew in the tropics; some are lucky if they remember how to put their regulator on the valve.



It helps to understand that this logic was standard operating procedure before SPGs and balanced first stage regulators were available, or widely used. That and the fact that we were trained to safely perform free-assents are the main reasons that 3/4 of us didn’t kill ourselves in the 1950s and 60s.

Nobody even heard of Octos and a significant percentage of the regulators were double hoses. We "usually" had a depth gauge and watch. We also knew that a single LP-72 was rarely large enough to get into decompression and repeds were limited to two dives/day... with Navy tables anyway.

Like I wrote: Getting distracted, losing sight of your buddy, or forgetting your training shouldn't be a death sentence. Darwin may not agree but I'm sticking to it.

• Do I wish that all Diving 101 courses included the academic and practical training to prevent the problem? Hell yes!
• Is that a reality? Sadly, no.
• Does running low on air with an unbalanced regulator teach you to monitor the dive better? It's a lot more memorable than the "monitor your computer" mantra.

I suspect I am more familiar with how divers in resorts are than most having been a instructor in Caymans.

That said, I don't know of a single case of "my reg breathed hard so I knew it was time to come up " versus, "my reg breathed hard so I did a polaris missile launch to the surface" when I asked what the heck just happened. It's a useless thing to expect will help.

I learned to dive J valves, no octo and no spg.. so thanks for the memories. It was a "old timer" then that avoided the new stuff (1981) and while he made us have good watermanship he was a moron.

Some activities, forgetting training will get ya dead, like it or not, "shouldn't be" or not

 

[cerich]

If your company can start to break up the dumb dealer-instructor model that puts new divers in titanium MK25s, more power to you!

while I would agree that no new diver "needs" a titanium reg, why shouldn't they have one if they want? Different folks have different ideas of what they need. It's not like a car where giving a new driver a Ferrari will end poorly. There's no reason that people can't feel pride of owning something expensive. That works for some, others (myself) not so much. But I don't begrudge their buying power

 

[Akimbo]

FYI: It is interesting that Cousteau's first Aqualung had a "reliable hard reserve" in the form of a third cylinder that would equalize with the first two. Same problem; no SPG which was exasperated by the fact that nobody had the experience to reliably calculate usage. Heck, the whole idea of an Aqualung diver was to be free from a square dive profile and meander horizontally and vertically at will.

 

[cerich]

FYI: . Heck, the whole idea of an Aqualung diver was to be free from a square dive profile and meander horizontally and vertically at will.

View attachment 414618

I believe the more accurate is that the collaborator was trying to help the nazi's get a tactical use weapon.. but he sure spun it well post war!

 

[Akimbo]

I learned to dive J valves, no octo and no spg.. so thanks for the memories. It was a "old timer" then that avoided the new stuff (1981) and while he made us have good watermanship he was a moron.

Just to be clear, nobody is suggesting avoiding the new stuff. EU-certified unbalanced regulators sold today and are safe to 165'/50M.

Redundant gas supplies coupled with better training is undeniably superior. Unfortunately they aren’t likely to become standard for new divers and redundant gas supplies in most vacation spots are between difficult rent and not allowed.

It is unfortunate that a reliable version of the J-valve was never developed. Regulators today are more than reliable enough for most recreational/no-decompression diving, but a reliable hard-reserve solution on a single tank (probably built into a first stage) would have value.

A distracted diver can forget to monitor their computer or can’t hear an audio alarm but nobody can misinterpret zip-to-breathe. A clever design would have to reset itself into reserve mode when the mechanism is first pressured and be very difficult to accidently trip... like the old J-valve levers. I bet lots of new divers would spend an extra $100 for a feature like that.

They would need enough training to trip it so they could bleed the regulator down in order to remove it though.

 

[Akimbo]

I believe the more accurate is that the collaborator was trying to help the nazi's get a tactical use weapon.. but he sure spun it well post war!

You really think so? Open circuit is pretty obvious for combat swimmers and the French, Germans, Italians, and Brits all had reliable pure O2 rebreathers already. Tossing a hand grenade at the bubbles wasn't exactly a complicated countermeasure. I thought Cousteau was in the French Resistance???

It sounds (reads) more like Cousteau wanted to burn fewer calories while poking fish and bagging lobster than while freediving (The Silent World)... that and making underwater movies was in his blood even during the war.

 

[cerich]

I thought Cousteau was in the French Resistance???

I.

depends whom you believe.