First Reg Choice Apeks XL4+ vs Deep6 Signature

[cerich]

Just gonna say, we are happy to support any LDS to service our regs. Dealer if ours or not. Other than manual be appy to spend time on phone or zoom to get their tech up to speed, will sell parts etc so they can support a local diver while making money.

Everyone beats this to be some binary Deep 6 or LDS thing, it isn't unless people/shop demand to make it so.

 

[Tournesol2000]

Deep6 have a great blog on their site about supporting LDS.
Owning the regs does not mean you have to service them yourselves. My first service was free from Deep6!
I still support my LDS and D6, and other dive centres. I also don’t like being told to buy something because that happens to be ‘the brand’ by LDS works with. Options are great, and Deep6 won my vote for their regs, find, dive computer, and wetsuits.

 

[Bald Wookie]

The OP stated they would service the regs themselves - again, would like to reiterate this is something I personally believe that in-person training should be given for. Sure, if someone has serviced a reg before, go for it. If OP decides to get Deep6 and gets LDS to service - even better. Happy to hear the support.

The larger issue then, is why should OP buy a reg from out of their country (noted with the XTX50s) and not from their LDS when it appears that this is a reg the LDS carries (OP noted they would get serviced here so safe to assume, I would think)?

If OP wants to buy Deep6 and bought from a shop in Canada, I 100% support this (I believe there are affiliate shops). But the mention of purchasing the XTX50s from out of country does not sit well with me.

 

[elan]

The prices for Aqualung and Scubapro in Canada and US are just overinflated. For the price of Deep 6 you can buy a high end SP or AL reg in Europe. So jf the OP can source it out of EU it makes total sense to me.

 

[Joris Vd]

I previously sold the XL4 at my old shop.
This is a bit of an outlier as our shop was in *extremely cold* water (read, -2 to 4*C 6 months of the year), but the XL4 reg sets did not stand up to the same cold tolerance that the rest of the apeks lineup was capable of. This was no matter how new or tuned they were, nor if we put new kits into them. A new 2nd stage diaphragm helped slightly, but overall they were much more prone to cold-induced free flows. Interestingly, a chat with Aqualung made it seem like these were initially designed to be deco regs.
FYI, the only difference (as far as I remember) between the XL4 and the XL4+ is an additional HP port, so don't let the + fool you into better performance or something.

As far as the Deep6 goes, the regs are well priced and appear to be well recieved by the community.
Being able to service yourself is nice, but again I do recommend having some training as often things go deeper than swapping o-rings, and I have seen too many scratched regs from non-suitable tools being used, which cause leaks or IP creeps. One of the downsides I do see with Deep6 is the chroming is thinner than some other regs. This also makes me a little concerned about the 2nd stage plastics. I have personally seen a few brands of regs commonly fail when cold and dropped (Sorry DiveRite).
IF you are good at washing your gear and are somewhat gentle with your regs this shouldn't be a problem.

Honestly though, what does your local shop sell and service?
Most issues with gear arise as you are about to use it, and its nice to pop down to a local shop to get them fixed. I can see that being an issue with Deep6, whether you need to send it back or they need to send you a part. Your local shop will more likely appreciate you buying the regs from them and will likely give you a rental reg (or they should) while they hold onto yours to be fixed.

As you are or used to be an aqualung dealer, didn't you have the exact same issues with the legends? I feel like it's more of a second stage design flaw that Aqualung has been embracing by getting ever smaller than anything else ?

 

[BlueTrin]

What did you go with? XTX50?
That was my original choice, that then evolved into the XL4 vs Deep6 I guess it's now Deep6 vs XTX50

I think the XL4 is only a few hundred grams lighter. It is a bit smaller too. I’d go with a XTX 50 too rather than a XL4. I don’t think I have been in a situation where I wished I had a smaller regulator set when flying.

The DST first stage transfer well to a twinset if you change to this later on and has nice routing with the 5th port.

 

[grf88]

cold is relative, there was another diver on the boat my week at scapa that used the xl4+ for BM doubles down to 50m on the battleships just fine, but the water was only like 8C to 10C. if you are planning to be ice diving, may want to start looking at a kraken DH, poseidon xstream, or apeks mtx-rc.

8C is considered warm water in parts of Canada. Apeks XTX50 with DST first will handle Canadian waters.

 

[Bald Wookie]

As you are or used to be an aqualung dealer, didn't you have the exact same issues with the legends? I feel like it's more of a second stage design flaw that Aqualung has been embracing by getting ever smaller than anything else ?

The XL4 has very similar internal components as the egress octo, and they’re all plastic. I personally haven’t found the Legend to be too bad, but it does have a metal barrel assembly which helps dissipate heat.

The XL4 is a lot of plastic, and small, so makes use in the cold tough.

A great small reg for warm water travel and deco options though!!

 

[Zadori]

The larger issue then, is why should OP buy a reg from out of their country (noted with the XTX50s) and not from their LDS when it appears that this is a reg the LDS carries (OP noted they would get serviced here so safe to assume, I would think)?

The main thing here is that including all import + taxes getting the XTX50 from EU will cost me out of pocket 700$CAD while getting it at the LDS is 1130$ before 15% taxes. That is why I am considering importing it from EU and servicing it locally.

As for the Deep6, I really like their business model and quality of equipment (I have their wetsuit), and I don't intend on starting to service my regs out of the blue. I'm an engineer and I will for sure get the servicing class from them before even thinking of servicing my stuff, even then if I find that I do not have a good enough handle on things I can always ship them out for servicing (or look at the different LDS see if one of them services them).

I understand the support the local LDS, and I buy from them as much as possible when prices are not 40% higher. Apeks gear here is crazy expensive at MSRP.

 

[Bald Wookie]

The main thing here is that including all import + taxes getting the XTX50 from EU will cost me out of pocket 700$CAD while getting it at the LDS is 1130$ before 15% taxes. That is why I am considering importing it from EU and servicing it locally.

As for the Deep6, I really like their business model and quality of equipment (I have their wetsuit), and I don't intend on starting to service my regs out of the blue. I'm an engineer and I will for sure get the servicing class from them before even thinking of servicing my stuff, even then if I find that I do not have a good enough handle on things I can always ship them out for servicing (or look at the different LDS see if one of them services them).

I understand the support the local LDS, and I buy from them as much as possible when prices are not 40% higher. Apeks gear here is crazy expensive at MSRP.

Sounds good.
I'm fairly certain that Europe dealers don't offer a PFL. So I think this is why you see a price difference between the two regions (recouping costs, etc.)
It is becoming more and more difficult for shops to recoup these costs also - AL asks more and more detail every year for PFL programs - down to the exact date that the regs were purchased, serviced. And I mean down to the day. I have seen Month return a "not good enough" result from head office. I would wager that over the next few years you will see these PFL programs phased out.
Right to repair stuff is also going to be interesting for SCUBA stuff as most parts kits are not available to the consumer and are either put together by retailers online, or are a bit of a grey market item.

That being said, and I say this to everyone who comes in to buy regs - you buy new (right now), and long term you save the money on parts kits (about $120 - $150 every 2 years). Own a reg for long enough and you save money.

TL;DR: Short term if you buy overseas you will save money, long term buy local with PFL and you will save money.