First Liveaboard -- what to consider and expect....

[ppatin]

I will continue my research, but any specific thoughts on a sailboat? Seems like you guys all opted for the larger boats but ran into Juliet....max of 12 divers and does Bahamas or Turks this winter....does Mona Island too , but wouldn't enjoy constant chops...

I'm not sure what you mean by constant chops. I have been on the Juliet a couple of times (search through my history for a trip report) and the boat was always great.

Even though she's a sailboat the Juliet does most of her moving under motor. I asked the captain about this and he said that using the sails as the primary means of propulsion often badly restricts their maneuverability and schedule. She really only sails well on a beam or broad reach and good sailing weather for the Juliet (around 20 knots of wind) is usually lousy diving weather. If she's going into the wind the sails are often used to stabilize the boat rather than to move her, she's too much of a heavy tub to sail well when close hauled.

---------- Post added September 23rd, 2014 at 07:02 PM ----------

I have never been on the Juliet so I can't give a personal opinion, but their website says that cruises include divers, non-divers, and snorkelers - so I don't know how many diving opportunities you would have. The other boats that have been mentioned are dedicated to divers so you will have the chance to do a lot of dives and at the nicest sites. Plus the dive decks are designed for the ease and convenience of the divers.

The Juliet is very much a dedicated dive boat. Non-divers can come along but I'm not sure why they would. I suppose if you had a couple going where one person dived and the other just snorkeled the snorkeling partner could have a pretty good time but the divers are certainly the focus of the trip.

Four dives per day are the norm on the Juliet so the really hardcore "get in as many dives as I can" crowd might turn up their noses at her but I found that four per day was plenty for me.

---------- Post added September 23rd, 2014 at 07:06 PM ----------

Also, is it safe to assume waters are calm once you are at dive sites? Assuming they cater to beginners and probably want it to be enjoyable but thought I'd ask....with bigger boats than land based ops, wonder if they are more 'daring' and would allow dives despite rougher than normal waters?

I can only speak for the Juliet here but they have always treated us like adults and made it clear that we were responsible for our own well being. The captain talked about this some and he said that with a clearly inexperienced group they will adjust their dive plans but when I went with them to the Keys there wasn't much hand holding. We anchored over some deep wrecks (Vandenberg, Spiegel Grove, Adolphus Busch) where the current was not insignificant and after the dive briefing we were allowed to jump in and do our own thing. A couple of dive were aborted because of extremely strong currents (the DM jumped in and said the water was hitting him hard enough that it made his reg free flow) so they aren't reckless but this isn't "follow the leader" diving either.

 

[RJP]

Four dives per day are the norm on the Juliet so the really hardcore "get in as many dives as I can" crowd might turn up their noses at her but I found that four per day was plenty for me.

I'm as hardcore as they come - and I'll take a 5th/nightdive if offered - but I would say that four offered dives a day is a full day of diving.

I had the opportunity to take an impromptu dockside tour of the Juliet recently. My wife and I were walking along the water in St Thomas and the Juliet was tied up there. Kat invited us aboard and showed us around. I was impressed with the fact that the boat was a fair bit larger than I had envisioned. And yes, while accommodations on a sailing vessel will be tighter than on a similarly sized motor vessel, I didn't find them to be particularly tight.

The liveaboard that I think is nuts is the Four Seasons Explorer. Rates run about $800/night (plus 18.8% service charge and tax) and they offer "as many as three dives per day." As my grandmother used to say, I think it's for people "with more money than good sense."


Best regards,

Ray Purkis

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

can only speak for a few caribbean liveaboards (t&c explorer, belize dancer, saba explorer) and the divers are generally VERY experienced with only a few "fresh" divers. this may be due to the price point? not sure.

these boats treat you as adults and allow dive pairs to plan and dive their own dive. they are ready to handle both noobs and experts. they do provide a dive guide that you can follow if you wish, but no requirement to group / cluster dive. they have common sense general restrictions:
- pool is open at set times only
- max depth is suggested and monitored post dive (generally 110 ft so that the voodoo gas divers can stay safe without thinking too much)

Although noobs could follow the guide instead of going off own their own, the guides don't babysit whomever that follows them, thus if the noobs stayed back or wandered off looking at something interesting, they could lose contact with the guide, and the guide is not going to wait aound to make sure they caught up.

Plus, the guides are not constantly searching for interesting critters to show to the noobs, since on liveaboard, most divers goes searching for their own critters. Thus a noob might feel like they didn't see anything interesting the whole dive if they are waiting to be shown the interesting stuff.

Many liveaboard require you to specify returning tank pressure. Not sure if they make an issue out of it if it is below 500psi. I usually report ending pressure of 500psi, so I suspect they think I am coming back with less than that.

 

[Zeagle Eagle]

Many liveaboard require you to specify returning tank pressure. Not sure if they make an issue out of it if it is below 500psi. I usually report ending pressure of 500psi, so I suspect they think I am coming back with less than that.

Well you round up don't you?

 

[KeithG]

Although noobs could follow the guide instead of going off own their own, the guides don't babysit whomever that follows them, thus if the noobs stayed back or wandered off looking at something interesting, they could lose contact with the guide, and the guide is not going to wait aound to make sure they caught up.

Plus, the guides are not constantly searching for interesting critters to show to the noobs, since on liveaboard, most divers goes searching for their own critters. Thus a noob might feel like they didn't see anything interesting the whole dive if they are waiting to be shown the interesting stuff.

Many liveaboard require you to specify returning tank pressure. Not sure if they make an issue out of it if it is below 500psi. I usually report ending pressure of 500psi, so I suspect they think I am coming back with less than that.

i do not agree. the DMs on the liveaboards i use behave like mother hens. they DO NOT lose divers and expend a large amount of time and energy looking after the noobs (and the incompetents).

they start to observe the divers as soon as they board the boat. they watch you setup and stow your gear. they casually chat with you the first day. if you are new to the boat you will get extra observation the first few dives.

quickly getting to know your abilities makes their job easier. by the end of the first day of dives they are fully aware of what they have to deal with for the week.

p.s. if you report 500psi they know you have less than 500psi. this is not their first circus. try coming back with 1200psi instead.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

i do not agree. the DMs on the liveaboards i use behave like mother hens. they DO NOT lose divers and expend a large amount of time and energy looking after the noobs (and the incompetents).

they start to observe the divers as soon as they board the boat. they watch you setup and stow your gear. they casually chat with you the first day. if you are new to the boat you will get extra observation the first few dives.

quickly getting to know your abilities makes their job easier. by the end of the first day of dives they are fully aware of what they have to deal with for the week.

p.s. if you report 500psi they know you have less than 500psi. this is not their first circus. try coming back with 1200psi instead.

Don't think I've been on liveaboards where people wants to stick to DM like a magnet, but quite a few times, on sites one is unfamiliar with, divers opt to follow the guide, and due to one thing or another, if they lose contact with the guide, it usually means they are then on their own. I know the 1st time I did a liveaboard, being use to guided dives where the DM keeps track of their divers, was a little concerned when lost the guide in less than stellar visibility, but since we weren't noobs, we just wandered around until we saw some other divers and went in the general direction they went until we saw the anchor or boat.

No need to come back at 1200psi, especially if the dive ends near the boat and the remainig air could be used to search/photographing whatever critters that's around.

 

[jonnierowe]

1200 is a bit extreme to come back with. 700 is plenty as long as you know what you are doing.

 

[Hintermann]

Don't think I've been on liveaboards where people wants to stick to DM like a magnet, but quite a few times, on sites one is unfamiliar with, divers opt to follow the guide.

Quite right. If the DM's had felt at the beginning that certain diver or divers need watching, they tactfully suggest that those divers accompany the guide for the first few dives at least. Otherwise, the DM diving offers a choice of following him/her. Personally, I have often found that following an experienced guide to be a rewarding experience as they know the most likely spots on the dive to find macro and other objects of interest.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

I have often found that following an experienced guide to be a rewarding experience as they know the most likely spots on the dive to find macro and other objects of interest.

From my experience, the guides on liveaboards tend to be more of the 'lead everyone in the general direction' instead of 'find the critter for everyone to see', which I find more on the day boats that cater to mixed experience people. Those day boat guides, usually have to keep watch on the whole group of people, so everyone is pretty close to the guide, who then can find interesting critters and show it to everyone. The liveaboard guides could find something, turn around and find nobody following behind. That seem to be apply for the dive resorts catered to more advanced divers where everybody scatters off on their own once in the water. In our earlier days when we tried to follow liveaboard or experienced dive resort guides, we wondered why everybody zipped off. We realized after wasting a bit of time following the guide who was mostly just swimming along, that people seem to want to find it own their own. The really unique stuff, the guide would probably still linger around and show any divers passing by that were interested.

 

[Donnah]

Most we have been on didn't have DMs in the water guiding -- except for Galapagos sometimes and a night dive in Truk. Most do require you to log in and out of the boat, because everyone ends up going in buddy teams at different times. Some will want to know depth and time of each dive also. Once in T & C, the DM asked if he could triple with us on a dive (he had seen our deep/long dives recorded) on the board. It was obvious that he was "checking us out." After that, he left us alone. I've also seen the DMs looking at computers while we were at dinner.