First DPV - Your recommendations

[Mr.X]

As with all hobbies, especially ones that don't deal with life-support (such as a scooter) there will always be both sides of this argument.

Of course it's always better to start with the absolute best thing that exists.

But for those who have made it to the top, or were lucky (read: rich) enough to start at the top, they soon forget that not everyone can spend 50k on a classic Corvette and then 50k to restore it. Or spend 3600$ to make their AR-15 match grade the day it comes in from the factory. Or spend 2500+ on their first scooter.

The point of a scooter than can be out-swum? It's still air consumption. If you aren't exerting energy, you're saving air. That seems fairly simple and I just got certified. Also, even if you could save money by buying doubles, doubles aren't nearly as fun as bombing around however slowly on a scooter.

The one thing I can't stand in all varying degrees of hobbies I've tried is the "buy the best or get laughed at and ridiculed" nature of the veterans of said hobby. I don't think it's a vicious or mean attitude, it's just that they have tried everything out there and know what works and what doesn't.

But just because you know after so many years of experience doesn't mean the next new scooter buyer can afford to pay for the items your experience has led you to.

Sure, someone could save up for a couple years and get the X scooter instead of the SeaDoo now. But you forgot about one critical male characteristic.

Instant Gratification

SeaDoo now, or Xscooter in 2-3 years?

Interesting perspective. I've taught scooter classes. I can tell you that no one in any of my "intro" to scooter classes truly wanted to use a scooter they could out swim. One class had two types of scooters - Gavin and Sea-Doo type scooters. There was always high excitement at first to use the scooters. After a while it just became a chore for the students to manage. Nothing ticked them off more than seeing another student underwater swim past them. After a time, the students opted not to dive with the slower scooter and they gathered dust at the end of the course. The Gavin-class scooters were always in high demand. Students never tired of using them. No ridicule, or coercion. Just natural selection.

In the end, people select what they want based on their needs. As an instructor, I just hate it when I see students buy gear that doesn't ever truly fit the bill. But heck, it happens all the time. Poodle jacket BC's, retractable thingies, purge masks, pony tamers, coiled lanyards, tank mesh, tank bangers etc.

X

 

[Rick Inman]

All this being said, I'll be rewinding an older tech scooter ($400.00). I need it to match SS wind specs. I got blown away recently on the Gavin and I didn't like it.

I know that speed isn't everything, but my two regular tech buddies just bought X-es, and I can leave them behind in the silt with my Mako. This Mako had the right stuff done to it before I bought it - clutch, switches, face-plate, the rewound to SS specs. I paid $800.00.

If I had the cash, I'd buy the X without a doubt. But I'm surly not embarrassed and can hold my own with the used Mako I bought for 3k less.

 

[Mr.X]

I know that speed isn't everything, but my two regular tech buddies just bought X-es, and I can leave them behind in the silt with my Mako. This Mako had the right stuff done to it before I bought it - clutch, switches, face-plate, the rewound to SS specs. I paid $800.00.

If I had the cash, I'd buy the X without a doubt. But I'm surly not embarrassed and can hold my own with the used Mako I bought for 3k less.

Excellent (killer) deal with the Mako! Sounds like a total rocket!

Interestingly enough, my out-of-the box Mako is faster than the X scooter and on par with an SS.

Cheers.

X

 

[Rick Inman]

Excellent (killer) deal with the Mako! Sounds like a total rocket!

Interestingly enough, my out-of-the box Mako is faster than the X scooter and on par with an SS.

Cheers.

X

Nice! My buddies know I can only dive the Mako to 200-ish, and are threatening to do a 300' scooter dive to get even.

I'm tempted to give it a shot...:11:

 

[SPG3K]

Interesting perspective. I've taught scooter classes. I can tell you that no one in any of my "intro" to scooter classes truly wanted to use a scooter they could out swim. One class had two types of scooters - Gavin and Sea-Doo type scooters. There was always high excitement at first to use the scooters. After a while it just became a chore for the students to manage. Nothing ticked them off more than seeing another student underwater swim past them. After a time, the students opted not to dive with the slower scooter and they gathered dust at the end of the course. The Gavin-class scooters were always in high demand. Students never tired of using them. No ridicule, or coercion. Just natural selection.

In the end, people select what they want based on their needs. As an instructor, I just hate it when I see students buy gear that doesn't ever truly fit the bill. But heck, it happens all the time. Poodle jacket BC's, retractable thingies, purge masks, pony tamers, coiled lanyards, tank mesh, tank bangers etc.

X

Important note - I've never dove with my SeaDoo.

However - I swam competitively for like 11 years when I was younger. I consider myself to be a pretty fast swimmer. I'm not Olympic caliber by any stretch of the imagination, but I can get up and go.

Truth be told I could probably outswim my SeaDoo for the duration of it's battery in a straight line.

But - no matter how slow/inferior/boring/useless some people may consider them, Ive had 4 years time of a freakin' blast on mine, and that was just in the 8 foot deep backyard pool.

I can't WAIT to take mine to the rock quarry and have some fun. It's all in your mindset. If you are the jealous or "keep up with the joneses" type, you will never be happy with anything except the latest "rave" equipment that everyone on SB or at the LDS is talking about.

Personally, I've tried that in several hobbies, and in the end I always got more caught up with the equipment or items themselves and than in enjoying what I was doing.

Eventually, the "cutting edge" stuff will slow down as a lull in creativity hits the market for SCUBA gear. Like every other product on earth, and those who live on that line will get burnt out because there is nothing "new" or "better" to have.

Not saying everyone is like that - some are lucky enough to afford nice scooters and will keep the same one forever. I understand that.

There is a useful saying in life and business. "Perception is reality."

I can promise you 100% that I will have a blast all day long at the quarry with my cheap-o SeaDoo even if my dive buddy is kicking along side me. Everything in life is what you make of it. Sometimes, if people would step back from the "American Dream" mindset (not pointing fingers, just a generalized statement) and enjoy what they have or can afford without maxing out 4 credit cards, their lives would be alot more fulfilling.

/step off soapbox


Not to say I won't ever own an X, actually, I would sincerely like to have one, I'm sure they freaking rule.

When I have the money saved up, I'll probably buy one. But I can have plenty of fun in the meantime for the 199.99 I spent a few years ago.

Also, for the record - I'm really not trying to rag on anybody, just provide another angle.

 

[Mr.X]

Important note - I've never dove with my SeaDoo.

However - I swam competitively for like 11 years when I was younger. I consider myself to be a pretty fast swimmer. I'm not Olympic caliber by any stretch of the imagination, but I can get up and go.

Truth be told I could probably outswim my SeaDoo for the duration of it's battery in a straight line.

But - no matter how slow/inferior/boring/useless some people may consider them, Ive had 4 years time of a freakin' blast on mine, and that was just in the 8 foot deep backyard pool.

I can't WAIT to take mine to the rock quarry and have some fun. It's all in your mindset. If you are the jealous or "keep up with the joneses" type, you will never be happy with anything except the latest "rave" equipment that everyone on SB or at the LDS is talking about.

Personally, I've tried that in several hobbies, and in the end I always got more caught up with the equipment or items themselves and than in enjoying what I was doing.

Eventually, the "cutting edge" stuff will slow down as a lull in creativity hits the market for SCUBA gear. Like every other product on earth, and those who live on that line will get burnt out because there is nothing "new" or "better" to have.

Not saying everyone is like that - some are lucky enough to afford nice scooters and will keep the same one forever. I understand that.

There is a useful saying in life and business. "Perception is reality."

I can promise you 100% that I will have a blast all day long at the quarry with my cheap-o SeaDoo even if my dive buddy is kicking along side me. Everything in life is what you make of it. Sometimes, if people would step back from the "American Dream" mindset (not pointing fingers, just a generalized statement) and enjoy what they have or can afford without maxing out 4 credit cards, their lives would be alot more fulfilling.

/step off soapbox


Not to say I won't ever own an X, actually, I would sincerely like to have one, I'm sure they freaking rule.

When I have the money saved up, I'll probably buy one. But I can have plenty of fun in the meantime for the 199.99 I spent a few years ago.

Also, for the record - I'm really not trying to rag on anybody, just provide another angle.

Always important to have another perspective. That being said, please share objective field results with full kit (wetsuit/tanks etc.).

Cheers,

X

 

[ProfessorAronnax]

I use a Sea Doo Seascooter GTI with my Rapid Diver system with a 30 cu HP cylinder and 16 pounds of lead (total wieght 45#) and it tools me around just fine, conserves my air big time(especially important with small rig) and is light enough to carry in one hand. It if had more power that would be awesome but at the same time it would no longer weigh only 18# and have 2 hours of run time.

I've noticed the DPVs mentioned in this thread basically fall into two categories: lightweight and heavy duty. At the same time I'll bet the divers who favor heavy duty scooters have completely different dive profiles than the divers who favor the lightweight scooters. I liken the argument to a hardcore offroader who favors a Hummer as the ultimate vehicle whereas the urban commuter favors the Prius as the ultimate vehicle. Theses two vehicle owners could argue forever
about how the Hummer is the best or the Prius etc. without ever convincing each other because of their completely different driving styles.

I bring this up just to raise awareness and hopefully add some objectivity to the discussion.

 

[OkiMike]

I bought an X about 2 months ago. Been out with it only about 10 times with my buddies (who have Gavins). And while I am comfortable using both, in terms of prep time, after-use maintenance and weight, I have zero regrets with the X. It's simply incredible.

And while I'm a bit shocked to hear that the SS is "faster" than the X (was the X tuned to full pitch and in 5th gear?), it's practically meaningless. Unless everyone is on an SS, the team will always be varying pitch/speed to match the slowest diver of the group.

 

[Rick Inman]

Unless everyone is on an SS, the team will always be varying pitch/speed to match the slowest diver of the group.

True, even if everyone is on the same brand of scooter. My two buddies just bought X's and there are variances in those two new scooter speeds. Diver size, the gear they are toting and scooter technique all effect speed. No two divers are going to match up perfectly speed-wise. And it's not like you just point your scooters straight and go. The guy on the inside of a turn picks up a bit of headway. That's where those X's have such an advantage - the 5 speed triggers.

 

[Mr.X]

I bought an X about 2 months ago. Been out with it only about 10 times with my buddies (who have Gavins). And while I am comfortable using both, in terms of prep time, after-use maintenance and weight, I have zero regrets with the X. It's simply incredible.

And while I'm a bit shocked to hear that the SS is "faster" than the X (was the X tuned to full pitch and in 5th gear?), it's practically meaningless. Unless everyone is on an SS, the team will always be varying pitch/speed to match the slowest diver of the group.

The SS, and some hot-rodded Gavins, Makos & Teknas that I've seen in cave country can be really fast. Some of the hot-rods are so fast they actually leave a wake.

The team concept of matching speeds is a nice idea...something that the WKPP practices (they also have the best Gavin motors selected by George) the reality is someone will always play slow down or catch up with a standard trigger, or throttle control. Additionally, raw speed is not a bad thing to have when squeezing through restrictions with high flow, or when you're on the job where the current is raging and team members cannot easily monitor each other...even with a downward glance between the legs.

X


speaking of five speed control - check out the "new" fusion scooter. http://www.silentdiving.com/pdf/FusionScooterspecs.pdf