First dive of AOW class... Yukon 10/1/05, NOT fun.

[Skytzo_Marc]

Alright I'm pretty pissed now. I got a phone call today from the instructor (not the head dive instructor) who said: "I guess you don't want to dive with me anymore."

I said that I felt inexperienced in the San Diego water environment and he agreed (which left me wondering if he felt that I was inexperienced, he probably shouldn't have allowed me to dive) and then said that when I felt comfortable to come back to them. I told him I wanted a refund.

That's it? That's all that happened? No apologies, no explanations... just brush it off like it was nothing?

I'm sorry but I have to contact PADI now, I don't want some other poor fool like me to wander in there and be put in the same damn situation.

This really pisses me off. I actually didn't want to take the AOW course right away but the lady in charge of scheduling classes said they have their OW students do it immediately because the material is still fresh.

In any event, I'm going to get my refund, complain to PADI, and never go back.

 

[ScubaZone]

I said that I felt inexperienced in the San Diego water environment and he agreed (which left me wondering if he felt that I was inexperienced, he probably shouldn't have allowed me to dive)



And this takes us back to being responsible for your own actions. If you didn't feel up to it, then why did YOU risk the safety of not only yourself but also your buddy.
I must agree that I don't believe you got the best deal with your instructor - but hey, take a bit onboard yourself.

 

[scubadobadoo]

I tell you man, I almost had a panic attack just reading this thread. Classic signs of poor decisions snow balling out of control on both the instructor and the diver's behalf.

I took AOW right after OW cert and it was a good choice for me personally. I believe that the course should be called "continued education" or something like that. In my case, I decided to take the course in Key Largo in conditions that I knew would be familiar to me and like the few dives I had done during and after my OW class and not back home in NYC in cold, dark, deep water with nasty current. Deciding to take an AOW class in conditions you have never been in does qualify the class as an advanced class imho and that wasn't a good idea. It makes it super advanced when you consider the conditions you were in and your lack of history in it as far as I am concerned. Things I am sure you have come to terms with.

Going to Catalina is a great idea! Baby steps are a good idea!

That said, did this instructor ever ask to look at your dive log? I believe that dive ops and instructors should look more often. After 150 dives, I can say I have never had anyone ask to see my log. A diver may carry the brunt of the responsibility but an instructor or a dive op not looking at logs can put me and everyone else on the boat in danger.

I am glad you made it out. Lots to learn from here for you and the rest of the readers. Experiencing a series of poor decisions leading to panic is a hard way to learn but it is effective.

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

The whole idea of myself taking an AOW class was to get more experience.

You're right, I should have called the dive. My buddy should have called the dive.

But out of anybody in the entire situation, the one person with the most experience never took the time to question whether or not his students were ready. This is what bothers me the most. Neither did he attempt to really educate the rest of the students. Actually, on the way back from the boat trip his comment was: "I'm pissed."

As an instructor and a diver of greater experience, your opinion is often viewed with more weight. As a novice diver being told by my instructor that I'll be ok, that I don't need to worry about _____, I tend to follow the person with more experience.

When I walk into a diveshop with divers who have apparently been diving for years, and they tell me it's cool to take an AOW class, I take it.

Given all of that, I still knew the book well enough to see enough factors that should have discouraged me. Honestly, I'm at the point now where my opinion is this: "I don't care who you are, how many logged dives you have, or how what not... if what you're saying goes against the books and my own sense of safety and you aren't God... I'm not listening to you."

The fact that I have a lot of responsibility for my own safety is the only reason I'm not banging down the door of the dive shop with a lawsuit... but the sheer disregard of the whole incident and no attempt to remedy the situation or anything is what fills me full of anger.

 

[Skytzo_Marc]

Nope. No log book. They didn't even ask for proof that I went to a refresher course in august.

I didn't even have to hand in my medical statements until I got to the boat.

The dive shop didn't even know whether or not I had paid for the boat ticket until I brought up the fact that I didn't.

The instructor didn't tell the dive shop how many students needed rentals or even what gear they needed (dpv, 3 tanks, etc.).

My original AOW class date was pushed back three weeks because they didn't have enough people in it.

They didn't know that they were out of XXL hoods until I asked for one...

ARGH. Even if I were to look at the shop from a business standpoint only and look at how they run their business (I'm a finance major), it's a mess.

So you're right, I need to take responsibility. So I'm going to. I'm going to report them to PADI and never go there again.

 

[Ayisha]

I've found that reporting to PADI is pretty simple. I emailed PADI once about an instructor and not only did they respond to my email, they sent a copy of my email to the instructor, placed a copy in his record, and they even published my letter in their Undersea Journal.

This was a positive letter. Hopefully they would respond likewise and take action on your letter. Hopefully it's as easy as emailing.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

And this takes us back to being responsible for your own actions. If you didn't feel up to it, then why did YOU risk the safety of not only yourself but also your buddy.
I must agree that I don't believe you got the best deal with your instructor - but hey, take a bit onboard yourself.

Because dude, the AOW student in question doesn't have 3000+ dives, or even 30+ dives to base his experience on. He had less than 15 dives by the looks of things, and so was, as is almost always the case, blindly trusting his fearless instructor, that things would be OK. You did the same damn thing if you can remember that long ago.

We all have, to lesser or greater degrees, and it is always wrong, and it always falls on the shop/instructor combo to ensure your safety as it's obvious that you don't yet know better. Sure you're a certified diver,...so what? The student here is as new as new gets, and has already shoulder more than his share of the burden. Show me your average 10 dive diver, that would have done something different here. I would have been the ultimate follower, just as he was, and better or worse so would 99.99% of you.

It's the line 'ehm up and empty their wallet approach to Rec diving. As Mike F. has said on another thread, going from OW to AOW in a couple weekends is fairly normal, and heck, is the "Standard".

So no-one should be asking why the student doesn't yet get it. Hell, does the Instructor of how many years even get it yet?

It all generally works well, fiancially speaking (The line them up and rape effect) But every once in a while the sloppiness costs somebody dearly, usually the unfortunate student paying the ultimate price. Moreoften than not however, the incidents do not end in death, but only a big scare and a revelation to the scared crap-less diver. The hackles go up, and then are soon forgotten, and the status quo remains the same.

The best part is when the "experts" bring up the "unaviodable and unforseable accident" cock-and-bull story.......

Regards

 

[ShakaZulu]

This guy ^^^ is absolutely correct, I was following blindly too when I started. In hind site, it's amazing that I'm still here?

 

[scubadobadoo]

The whole idea of myself taking an AOW class was to get more experience.

Here in NYC, ops allow recently certified in warm water divers to take an AOW class and I agree that it is a good way to gain more confidence and experience but they don't go straight out on a boat and hit 100 feet on a cold water wreck that may have current and low viz. The dive ops here usually first take the students to a quarry or on a shore dive in what is essentially a controlled environment. That way the first dives of the class can focus on the student getting used to the cold water while they do something less stressful like work on nav exercises or on bouyancy. Task loading kills. Sometimes they even do a pool session first so the students can get used to the thicker wet suit and all the new and or rented gear.

Another good "class" I have seen here is one called "intro to cold water diving." It is exactly that. Usually Quarry diving in a cold but controlled environment. Great class! You might look for something like that.

I still say this whole experience could have been more positive if the instructor would have taken a few minutes to look at his students log books. I recently had the pleasure of diving with an awesome and new Scuba Board member who had far less dives than me. Before agreeing to dive with this person I read all his recent posts just to see what I would be up against. It helped confirm that this diver knew what he was talking about and had enough experience to handle the dives we would be doing in cold and deep water.

I followed blindly as well. Scuba Steve's comments above are dead on. Luckily I had a very good instructor and didn't choose to take my class in conditions I wasn't familiar with.

 

[garyfotodiver]

... as for me I think the minimum required dives that are set up by agencies should be mandatory and actually increased so divers aren't put into a situation they aren't comfortable with. Many new divers don't want to abort the dives if they feel uncomfortable because they don't want to disappoint everyone or look bad. As new divers gain experience, they Know to listen to that inner voice and call any dive if they don't feel comfortable...... just my short 2cents

I realize that I am in the minority on this forum. SSI requires verifiable dives before a student receives AOW. Now I know this can be evaded, but a minimum dive requirement is a step in the right direction. I am NOT in favor of taking "advanced" courses right after OW. Get some experience in first. Sit quietly on the sand in 40fsw, and watch the marine fauna come to you. Go to a quarry and practice skills. Keep your stress level down as you learn. Rent different gear and try it out before you buy.

As far as calling a dive goes, I have done it several times during these past 35 years. I have no regrets and I never worry about what another person might think. After all, I'm still here and eager to get back in the water.