First Computer

[stuartv]

My reading is that PADI OW/AOW train you for "no stop" diving and if at any point you have a mandatory deco stop ("yes stop"), you are diving beyond your training. I have a suspicion one might be able to come up with a profile that will have a deco ceiling (i.e. "yes stop") that, if you come up at safe ascent rate, will clear before you get there (i.e. "no stop"). If that's true, that'll be a no-stop dive, no deco, mild or otherwise, and yet beyond OW training. That's the shady area.

There is no shady area there. Any dive that comes close to the NDL will have a ceiling - which you will not hit if you ascend at the rate you're trained to ascend at (probably 30 ft or 10m per minute). If you're diving a computer, "ceiling" or not, if the computer says you have NDL of 0 or greater, then you have not exceeded OW training. Similarly, if you are diving using tables and a bottom timer, as long as you start your ascent at the time the tables said, or less, and ascend at 30 fpm/10 mpm, you still have not exceeded your training.

The people who developed the NDL tables and the algorithms that produce NDLs on a computer knew that diving to your NDL will result in having a ceiling (that you will not hit if you ascend at the correct rate or slower). As long as you follow the NDL, you have not violated OW training.

 

[Marie13]

The Geo is a great computer. Manual sucks though. Just cough up the $8 for the online class. Well worth it.

 

[Marktan]

FWIW, My wife and I started our OW classes with the Zoop. Great basic nitrox capable computer, easy to read and navigate around the menus. We are now both AOW certified with about 70 dives each. She still loves it and refuses to change despite all my attempts at upgrading it for her.

I sold my Zoop and got the Hollis TX-1 for the wireless Air Integration and the ability to use multiple transmitters for multiple tanks (sidemount); while I don't plan on learning deco diving or using trimix anytime soon, I don't put it out of the realm of possibility. It's also supposedly compatible with the Hollis line of rebreathers that I do want get into eventually, so I'm happy to have a computer I can grow into. I love the air integration, she doesn't care for it one way or the other (As silly as it sounds, I find the on the fly "Dive time remaining" calculation strangely reassuring for some reason).

The Zoop is super conservative (even on it's most liberal setting) compared to the TX-1 which uses a different algorithm. We have noticed that when diving together, she tends to have shorter NDL times at any given point than I do by minutes, and often we will be coming up and her zoop will start beeping ceiling warnings before mine, or ascent rate cautions. Despite mine not making any fuss, we still plan and perform our dives off hers since it's the more conservative of the two. I download both into Subsurface to log our dives; absolutely love it.

Strangely, my computer "failed" briefly on a dive trip in Cancun. Gave me an "altitude error" during our SI and locked out. Replacing the battery fixed it, but (as she likes to point out) her Zoop has never failed.
That being said, I think the Perdix AI has actually caught her eye (as well as mine)...Damn the fact that there will always be a "new shiny" thing to get. I think the trick though is to just get something in your price point that can do what you want it to do as far as features and learn to use it proficiently.

 

[offfi]

I have been using the same Uwatec Aladin Pro Nitrox since 1998 and last year added an Oceanic Veo180 as a back up. As far as I am concern, any computer selling less than US$200.00 will do the job just as good as anything selling several times more!!

That's also my opinion.
If money is tight, you can buy a lot of gear second hand. Even regs, if you know what you're doing and get a really good deal.
There's also nothing wrong with buying a new cheap reg, they are just as safe as the more expensive ones (except for cold water).

 

[dmaziuk]

... if you ascend at the rate you're trained to ascend at (probably 30 ft or 10m per minute) ... you have not violated OW training.

Right. And the question I was commenting on was

OT and out of curiosity:
Is decompression diving generally considered "tec" in the US?

I don't think it's the way it works. My interpretation is: as long as X and Y and Z, a dive is not considered a "decompression dive". Exact meaning and values of X and Y and Z are subject to interpretation and are argued about in every other thread here on SB.

E.g. if you plan your dive as decompression dive in the first place, then it's definitely a "tec" dive. OTOH If your zoop says your -1 on NDL and you planned your dive to slowly come up the wall from that point and you know your ceiling's going to clear before you get to half depth...

 

[stuartv]

Right. And the question I was commenting on was



I don't think it's the way it works. My interpretation is: as long as X and Y and Z, a dive is not considered a "decompression dive". Exact meaning and values of X and Y and Z are subject to interpretation and are argued about in every other thread here on SB.

I see. I still maintain there is no grey area. The correct answer, with no grey area, to the question you just quoted is "Yes." Period. Decompression diving IS generally considered "tec" in the US. The word "generally" in that question cannot just be ignored.

 

[dmaziuk]

This is how I'd expect a dive op's insurance policy to interpret it. Then it makes perfect a**-covering sense to buy a ZHL computer that lets you set GF to 99/99 and truthfully tell anyone who wants to know you're never getting anywhere near any ceilings No Siree.

I think I prefer underdeveloped countries in Carribean that are still able to control their lawyers and where DMs may use their own common sense once in a while.

 

[BullDiver]

Found a good price for a Geo 2.0 originally bought in 2009 on ebay. Is that going to function the same as a newly bought Geo 2.0 today?

 

[dmaziuk]

Found a good price for a Geo 2.0 originally bought in 2009 on ebay. Is that going to function the same as a newly bought Geo 2.0 today?

You may need to replace the battery. Pressure sensors don't last forever but can easily last a decade. (Except apparently on Zoops.) If it's still on warranty, that may not be transferable, if not, that's a non-issue. Edit: I see: 2009. Warranty not an issue then, life left in the pressure sensor: maybe.

I'd take it on a dive within the seller's return period. Or in a chamber if you have access to one.

 

[scubadada]

Found a good price for a Geo 2.0 originally bought in 2009 on ebay. Is that going to function the same as a newly bought Geo 2.0 today?

Hi @BullDiver

Up to firmware version 1i, you would need a download cable, see Oceanic website for firmware update: Support » Software I would hope you would get a download cable with the computer. As per @dmaziuk, I would just replace the CR2430 battery and start fresh. Make sure you get the battery door tool with the computer, makes battery change a cinch. I would not worry about the pressure sensor. I assume you get a paper manual, it is available as pdf off the Oceanic website

My Geo2 is from 2011, 700 dives, 3rd battery, it's perfect. I believe the Geo2 replaced the Geo in 2009. Current Geo2 with download cable would run you $450, I would imagine you're paying way, way less?

Good diving,

Craig