First BCD

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I have to say it looks pretty obvious I started a ***** storm with this one. Both bcs I originally asked about are back inflates that have good reviews. They both seem solidly built for their pricepoints. The one downfall it seemed the beuchat had was the lift was high for a beginner non tech diver. From most of the looking around i have found for the bp/w setup they all seem to high lift also. For now I am interested in back inflated bc's. If I do become more advanced later maybe I will look to a bp/w setup for doubles. I look at it this way. When I first started hunting I only had one gun. Now it is same to say I got many more. So if I have to buy another rig later I guess I will have a backup or have one for a dive buddy to use.

Yes you did strike a soft spot with some on this board and open up a whirlwind storm. And I agree with you, you really can not get something for the future, if you do not know where you will be headed toward. And if we grow in a sport, we get more gear. It happens all the time.

When I started motorcycling, I thought sport bikes were the end all be all. Now I have different bikes for different type of riding. Nothing wrong with having more then one bike, what is so wrong about have more then one set of gear? Different gear for different type of diving.
 
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Nothing wrong with having more then one bike, what is so wrong about have more then one set of gear? Different gear for different type of diving.

While there's nothing 'wrong' with having different rigs, there are downsides.
  • Why buy two rigs when one can do the job of two or more?
  • You want to develop muscle memory in all operations. Having different kits makes that pretty difficult. Like switching between cars or bikes, they can operate differently.
  • The initial expense is 2x that of a single multi purpose rig.
  • The service is 2x that of a single multi purpose rig

For most divers, it's impractical.
 
I do not think there is one end all be all set up out there. Because we are all different types of divers. Maybe some of us are "real diver" or not, we all have different requirement form our gear.

I have no trouble switch between my 4 bikes. I do not miss a shift or anything. I use my wife's reg and fins as a back up sometimes, and I have no issue with them, as she uses my fins and reg sometimes as a backup, with no issues either. I use splits, she use paddle. This is not about developing the perfect golf swing that requires a extreme amount of muscle memory

The service of a bc is next to nothing. I have had my current jacket, and have spent 0 dollar needing service. And it has been 3 years now. The reg is the part that need yearly servicing with more cost involved. But that is not what this thread is about.

And upgrading later the expense is off set by the usage that the first bcd gave you. So it is not as extreme as you seem to put the cost.

But for "real diver" the passion makes it practical :wink:
 
Is Weight integration evil? The first thing a BP user may discover is that they need one of them there weight belts! IMO weight belts are a PITA. I dive one with a BP, but I like my stiletto better in the weight integration department. One has to purchase a weight system or weight belt, and pockets (if desired).

At a minimum a BP/W diver generally needs a weight belt. That means two pieces of gear to one compared to a weight integrated BC.
Ron, is there any particular reason you choose not to use integrated weights with your BP/W? It's super easy to do, if that's what you prefer. Why you think a weight belt is any more necessary with a BP than with any other BC is a complete mystery to me. If you want integrated weights, put on integrated weights. I don't think weight integration makes any sense for my diving, but I don't see it as a BP/W vs. Jacket issue at all. Either system can have weight integration or not. Obviously weight integration isn't "evil", but I find it amusing that someone using such a provocative term would wonder why this is such an emotional debate.

Do BP/W's fix trim? Anyone who instantly says that a BP fixes trim is confusing weight placement, and tank placement with a particular type of equipment.
True, but I don't think anyone is saying that. What they are saying is that the default weight placement of a BP is more advantageous than the trim characteristics of a typical jacket BC. It may still need adjustment, but it often does not.

Does A BP/W system makes one a better diver? The only thing that makes someone a better diver is diving. Good equipment selection can help, but does nothing magical.
No kidding. Who claimed otherwise, and what does such an outrageous claim have to do with the real pros and cons of the gear?

When is a BP/W a good choice? If one wants to do doubles, there is no better solution. If one wants must carry a lot of weight (Drysuit diving/cold water diving) a steel Back Plate and STA can take 12lbs+ off the belt, and distribute it evenly across the back.
These are two good reasons for making the choice, but there are many others as well.

Ironically a good number of recreational dives on SB are VERY strong advocates of the BP/W system. Many with less than 100 dives (often 50) are VERY opinionated on the subject, and honestly, I have no idea why? Many/Most of these folks have very little experience with more than one BC.
I'm not sure I see the irony, but in any case there are also lots of BP/W fans that have decades of diving experience, and lots of experience with a variety of gear. Nothing about a novice liking a sensible system makes the system less sensible.

Why is this such emotional subject?
Partly because people insist on posting their sometimes spurious opinions as though they were fact, and partly because people constantly resurrect crazy fringe arguments instead of discussing meaningful pros and cons logically. It raises the hackles of people on both sides who have well thought out and valid reasons for their choices. I believe there are real and tangible benefits to the system I prefer, especially when I'm diving in cold local waters (as you pointed out), but when push comes to shove it doesn't make much difference for most recreational dives in warm water. As always, I recommend using what YOU like. If you ask my opinion though, I'll tell you what I like and why. If that causes you to reconsider your preferences, great. If it doesn't, that's also great.
 
MSiliva

The op was asking about specific items, and the wave of the emotional ones was jump in never the less. How did asking about 2 particular back inflate BC become the battle ground for the BP/W wave?
 
Easy. New guy says, "I am thinking about X or Y" and it is easy to say, "have you considered Z?"

Sometimes people will add, "and for various reasons I am ONLY looking at X and Y" and that is OK. Otherwise I assume they want all the info they can get and I may offer an opinion.
 
You have the right idea about buying your gear ahead of time. You will, however, make no friends with your local dive shop (LDS) when they find out there is nothing for them to sell. Selling classes doesn't keep the doors open. Selling overpriced dive gear does that.

In terms of the OW class, I would avoid the friction by a) taking the class from a shop I never intend to revisit and b) using rental gear. That way when I have the OW cert and show up at the shop I really intend to use with a full bag of gear, they don't have anything to say. I would already be a trained diver and expected to have my gear. This thing gets very predatory. Really ugly! YMMV but don't count on it!

Richard

Oh, man - listen to what this guy is saying. I've been thru it first hand and it can get ugly. Who knew that taking a class thru a shop obligated you to buy exclusively from them and sign away your right to shop competitively?

Having said that - I've made a few dives in a Zeagle Escape and I liked it a lot. It seems that the Ranger is all you ever hear about but Zeagle other models are equally good depending on your intended use.
 
Easy. New guy says, "I am thinking about X or Y" and it is easy to say, "have you considered Z?"

Sometimes people will add, "and for various reasons I am ONLY looking at X and Y" and that is OK. Otherwise I assume they want all the info they can get and I may offer an opinion.

But the OP did say he thought about z, but will go with x and y. But the z folks still push their point never the less.
 
That's not quite what he said. He said that he was looking at a couple of products and there weren't a lot of options at his LDS. In that context, suggesting that he check out a vendor like DSS seems to make sense.
 
I knew you were out there! By the way what is the typical difference between coach and business class for a typical vacation that includes diving?

All our interisland flights have gone to charging for coach checked bags, but the difference to a non-charged seat is significantly more than the charges. My Gara 2000's may have made their last trip in August.

It depends on when you go, with who you fly with, and what program you are enrolled with. I have seen upgrades cost about 200 buck round trip from American Airline form eco to business. And if you have the miles available, you get the eco ticket and upgrade to business for free.

And if you get business class during the sales period, it may be only 300 more the eco. It is all about looking for the right deal.

But for me, it does not matter, if the flight is over 4 hours, it is business class it is worth it.
 

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