Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[The Chairman]

There's been a spin-off thread for this: Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

 

[Louisville Diver]

You have no idea what you are talking about. This operation runs weekend dive boats, never far from land, to get you to dive sites that can only be gotten to by boat. 2 nights, 2 days of diving. The price I paid, $550 for 2 nights and 2 days isn’t exactly cheap. Truth Aquatics has been around for a long time. They have hosted over 1 million dives, and 450,000 divers have been on their boats. They are not a fly by night organization. Please stop bad mouthing them when you don’t know what actually happened.

I have been on this boat. Clean, well maintained, good crew, good food, excellent diving. This trip was a three day trip because of Labor Day. Based on my personal experience on this boat, I think the findings will show the fire started possibly from a lith battery exploding and the fire spread very fast. The staircase is not narrow, nor is it a ladder, it was a staircase that fed directly into the galley, as did the escape hatch. The only way passengers were trapped is the galley was fully engulfed and prevented escape from either the stairs or the hatch.

There will certainly be changes to boat charters, but I sincerely hope Glen and his family do not go out of business, and I will do whatever I can to help them stay around.

Karen

Karen, with all due respect, I generally pay about 200 myself for a half day's two tank boat dive.

Your statement of $550 being "not cheap" for two days' and nights' dives leads to the degradation of the sport, as there will always be some crappy operator eager to meet the demand for cheap customers, and will cut whichever corners are necessary to do it.

That cutting can take many forms as management works to monetize your thrift. Overcrowding can occur along with the dangers it presents both in and out of the water - as happened here. Greater fatigue among even a thoughtful staff can degrade performance and attention. Maintenance and quality can slide.

So no, I'm not going to suffer reflexive defense well.

 

[2airishuman]

I was thinking that the computer room/data centers of places I have worked had Halon fire suppression systems. What is the difference here? People in a computer room are presumed to be awake and can get out quickly?

They are not used in areas with large numbers of people. Typical midsize data center or telecom facility you might have as many as a dozen people in a 2000 square foot room, all wide awake, with big well-lit emergency exits in opposite directions. Usually the way these are set up it takes two fire detector trips to cause a bottle release. The warning bell goes off when the first fire detector trips, and the evacuation horn goes off when the second one trips. Then you have a short amount of time to evacuate, usually around 15-30 seconds, before the halon or FM200 or CO2 bottles trip, as the case may be. In many cases (but certainly not all) there is a "hold" panic button near the doors that you can push to stop the discharge.

I was also thinking of sprinklers like what are in my condo. Those are obviously designed to work even in rooms where people are sleeping. If it needs city water pressure behind it, why wouldn't there simply be a pump that is connected to the outside of the boat?

They spray out, typically, around 10 gallons per minute. Boats that fill with water, sink. Bilge pumps are a thing, as mentioned upthread, but can be easily clogged by debris. There are larger boats that have them, anyways, and they're set up so they can be valved off in zones.

So far, from what @Wookie posted, what I got was that the reason these ships don't have these kinds of suppression systems is, basically, because USCG regs don't require them. Implying that they don't have them because of cost, I guess.

It's complicated. This accident was tragic, and I imagine that something will change once it is better understood.

Beyond prevention, the general approach to marine fire safety is to have separate compartments with fireproof dividers. Fire breaks out, you evacuate the compartment, close the fire doors so it doesn't spread, shut off fuel sources, and extinguish the fire. On smaller boats that doesn't work because there's nowhere to go. I don't think that applying a fire suppression band-aid will work for this. It's fine if there is an isolated high-risk area, like an engine compartment or APU/generator compartment.

Don't all these kinds of ships have automatic bilge pumps? So, if a fire system started pumping water into one cabin, the bilge pump would at least substantially prolong the time until the ship was flooded? Unless it was like (I think) Wookie said and the fire pump and bilge pump were one and the same.

Most boats that size have several bilge pumps.

They are great to have but aren't reliable in an emergency. As I mentioned up-post, the problem is that they clog. If you use a strainer then the strainer clogs. If you don't use a strainer then the impeller gets fouled with whatever crap is being washed out of the bilge by the leak or firefighting activities or whatever. You get every piece of wire, ziplock bag, dead rodent, and accumulation of sand and dirt in the boat, and you're trying to pump it. So you have several pumps, and maybe some of them are flexible impeller pumps that are less susceptible to that sort of thing, and maybe you use a really big strainer. Still no guarantees.

 

[lexvil]

I've had the misfortune to have to piece together (as part of a team) far too many aircraft incidents post crash.

Comparing them with this is chalk and cheese.

With an air crash you have a ton of data, also you have metal. lots can be determined by its place in the debris field, prior to examining the fragment/large chunk

Here you have nothing above the water line. I'd guess the initiation point is gone, probably the item that was the started it too. There will be no chance of analysing flame pattern etc.

I would guess that the ops' other boat will be impounded and used for a point of reference study, maybe the NTSB will construct a similar model for a burn test.

They will for sure figure out why the passengers couldn't escape, and I'd be surprised if there aren't criminal charges pressed

As to the exact cause, I highly suspect unless they get lucky and have a good piece of evidence, an educated guess will be the best they can do

So you have no experience with this sort of accident.

 

[DreadnoughtNH]

Looks like this thread is becoming a little hot with opinions and easily bruised egos.

Let's try to keep it civil? Some of our fellow divers are no longer with us.

 

[Ravenware]

Karen, with all due respect, I generally pay about 200 myself for a half day's two tank boat dive.

Your statement of $550 being "not cheap" for two days' and nights' dives leads to the degradation of the sport, as there will always be some crappy operator eager to meet the demand for cheap customers, and will cut whichever corners are necessary to do it.

That cutting can take many forms as management works to monetize your thrift. Overcrowding can occur along with the dangers it presents both in and out of the water - as happened here. Greater fatigue among even a thoughtful staff can degrade performance and attention. Maintenance and quality can slide.

So no, I'm not going to suffer reflexive defense well.

If you have never been on a Truth boat, or used their service, you really are not in a position to judge them. I have also paid 200 for 2 tanks, but I have also paid much less than that, and the cost does not reflect the quality of the operation. Some of my most expensive dive experiences were the worst in terms of safety, or quality of the experience. Dive masters who had no clue what they were doing. Paying more doesn’t guarantee anything.

Truth Aquatics runs a professional organization, good safety briefing, and as much support as you wanted. Most of the divers I know that dive with them are advanced, well experienced and able to take care of themselves, either as part of a dive group who chartered room on the boat or an individual. The dives were individual and you dive with a buddy, not a dive master. That is how all the day boats I use out of a Monterey operate, the boat provides transportation, tanks, and in case of emergency, but you dive on your own, and you have to be capable of navigating your way back to the anchor line. It is not for newbies, unless you bring your own dive master.

Diving is different all over the world, those of us who are used to this type of diving think Truth does a fabulous job.

 

[Diving Dubai]

So you have no experience with this sort of accident.

It was you who said because the NTSB can solve aircrash incidents where you have a ton of evidence and data and compared it to this, where the only remaining physical evidence is the hull below the waterline

I was just pointing out, why I don’t think it’ll be as easy as you think to actually nail down anything other than a highly educated guess

But if you’ve participated in investigations and know differently then please enlighten us all

 

[broncobowsher]

For the speed that flames can spread can be amazing. Have a little read up on the MGM fire back in 1980
MGM Grand fire - Wikipedia
The construction of the Deli (materials used, etc.) is probably very comparable with any dive boat. There are a lot of things that are different, but not that much. Foam seating, vinyl materials, wood, plastic...

 

[lexvil]

The boat was in compliance, well maintained and did have any recent findings. I just want to point out, these charters are usually weekend trips, this was a three day because of Labor Day. They anchor off the various islands at fabulous dive sites, and their record has been impeccable. I have been on this boat, it felt chummy in the bunk area, but not as bad as others I have been on. But, there is one stairway that goes into the galley, no door, and an escape hatch that also feeds into the galley. I wonder how many passengers even woke up. If the galley was engulfed, they may have all succumbed to smoke inhalation while sleeping.

Just a point of clarification, the galley is the kitchen, the main stairs or ladder were close to the galley, the escape trunk was at the other end of the salon or main cabin, yards away from one another.

 

[BikerBecca]

This thread has become extremely depressing and I hope the moderators will shut it down. Truth Aquatics runs an excellent operation and all the armchair quarterbacks who have probably never dove with them before are saying some ugly things.

This is a sad day for our community, let's keep opinions out of the discussion until we have the facts. I dive on the Vision twice a year for 5 days and 4 days of diving. Their crew is professional and truly amazing. I've never had anything but spectacular experiences with Truth Aquatics. I am deeply saddened by why happened yesterday but we don't need to fan the flames of this tragedy by writing ridiculous assumptions about how they operate.

Thank you.