Fire on dive boat Conception in CA

[Brodydog]

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Source for all: ABC News

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Look at the beautiful faces of these divers.
God Bless them all.

Source for all: ABC News and SFGate

Wow. That’ll get you emotional. Those close ups really put reality into it.

 

[Blasto]

I've never been in any fire situation but if all those 34 people woke up, realizing what's going on upstairs, at least some of them would probably try to run thought the fire/smoke using clothes/blankets as a some kind of protection, if meager, from this inferno.

Chemical smoke kills quickly. It's not so much a matter of coughing and slow CO poisoning as could happen in a wood-only fire, as it is waking up with your blood already filled with CN, CO and HCl instead of O2. That is by the time heat or particulate smoke, the noticeable effects of a fire, even reach the person.

I had this rough idea for a redesign of that bunk area. (...)

Sadly, smaller boats are exempt from most maritime safety regulations that keep larger ships at a tolerable level of safety.

I'm not sure if it's good or bad, because the costs of building to commercial ABS+SOLAS rules would leave very few liveaboards operational. You'd have to limit the fire load, provide insulation, install suppression, restrict below-deck berthing, etc. It's not trivial. The design of most wood/fiberglass liveaboards isn't very safety-conscious, not just regarding fires, but all-around (stability, freeboard, equipment).

 

[Kitty_Kat]

Does anyone know more about the details of the ventilation systems onboard this type of board? (Where is the air input? Approximately how much air does it move in/out of the bunk area? etc.)

If the fire started on the main deck, I'm wondering if there may have also been a fault in this system allowing smoke to flow that quickly into the bunk room through the ventilation system. However, this might be a moot point if the fire started in the bunk room...

 

[george_austin]

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Source for all: ABC News

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Look at the beautiful faces of these divers.
God Bless them all.

We can argue all we want but let's not forget the beautiful souls lost. Brings tears to my eyes when I look at these lost souls.

Source for all: ABC News and SFGate

I've seen a couple of those people on other boats. Thank you for posting the pictures

 

[Diver2019]

Why does it matter that much?
If zero work up or if the 4 (those recovered in the water) woke up and couldn't exit while the 30 others passed due to smoke inhalation what would the practical difference be?

Given statements that the bodies were unrecognizable and DNA analysis was needed for identification of many of them: I doubt you are going to meet a "reasonable doubt" standard. While 1) isn't required and 2) is unlikely to change NTSB recommendations anyway.

I doubt you can 100% determine the cause of death from "unrecognizable" bodies and I believe that's reasonable.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I just read where the the owners of the boat have filed legal papers to limit the liability to the value of the boat, which I assume is zero. Boat owners seek to head off lawsuits after 34 die in fire

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Has been mentioned many times up thread and in the legal thread concerning this tragedy.

Please read the thread before posting.

Yes, it is very long but reading back even a few pages may answer many questions and avoid reposting of known information.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Posts about the lawsuit have been moved to Legal considerations for the Fire on dive boat Conception in CA please post there if you wish to discuss that issue.

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[scubadada]

no, those hatches suck for berthing spaces and over and over and over again history has shown us that at best they work for 1-3 people while the rest perish. That is proven in fires, floods and capsizing. For the few people it works for it's a good thing, but escape hatches generally suck.

I think it depends on the type of emergency and the ease of exit. My previously used example on the Nautilus Explorer, this would be easy to use in a slow sinking episode whereas it may be much more challenging in an emergency fire.

 

[KevinNM]

Generally people are highly cooperative in emergencies. Typically the stereotypical 'panic' reactions don't appear until the situation has changed from a dangerous emergency to obvious imminent death if you don't get out NOW.

 

[Luis H]

I had this rough idea for a redesign of that bunk area. As a secondary egress it does not have to be vertical, is that correct? Stairs on a slope should have the advantage of somewhat forcing the top person outward if there was a crush behind, and you'd emerge more or less moving ahead and to the back of the boat.

Obviously a rather basic drawing.

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You can pretty much get all the data you need to design a proper escape route from this document.
ASTM F1166: Standard Practice for Human Engineering Design for Marine Systems, Equipment, and Facilities

http://web.askewindustrial.com/ASTM2014/2b0d0d1826f37f7659abbea102892851.pdf?tblASTMSpecsPage=79

Or, you can also get a lot of useful information from Mil-STD-1472

MIL-STD-1472 Rev. G - EverySpec
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiknuWloL3kAhVrUN8KHcsvCwcQFjAAegQIAhAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Feveryspec.com%2FMIL-STD%2FMIL-STD-1400-1499%2Fdownload.php%3Fspec%3DMIL-STD-1472G.039997.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1c-N5N372NivqDNlo01mVR


Either document will give you enough information to see if you can fit a stairway or inclined ladder, rather than a vertical ladder.

In the Mil-STD 1472G if you find Figure 80 it will give you a good idea of a steep Stair-ladder dimensions.

The range (and recommended dimensions) of riser height, width, tread depth, etc. is all shown as part of that figure. You can also look at Figure 79 for low rise stairs and Figure 81 for vertical ladder data.

 

[Tuttlet]

Sounds like the entire galley level - the most common source of fires on boats (tho batteries seem likely in this case) yet the only place where smoke is NORMAL - was unoccupied, in which case I don't think the fire needed to be FAST, it may have had all the time in the world to grow because as so many of you pointed out, you don't put smoke detectors in galleys.

If this is a general rule of thumb: "you don't put smoke detectors in galleys", is it time for a rethink of this rule? Or at least inverse connect the smoke detector with the range hood, no human interaction required.

Galley Ventilation on during cooking == smoke detector disabled
Galley Ventilation off == smoke detector active

Seems like it should at least be present & active when the cabin/galley is unoccupied