Finding the cheapest certification???

[chepar]

Originally posted by kelpmermaid
I think at the beginning, though, people have no idea how much they really don't know. They don't even know what to ask. Of course, if they all did their homework and read the Scubaboard...but they don't even know to look for it!

I agree with kelpmermaid -

I believe that most people in the beginning that are looking to get certified have no idea what to look for as far as "quality" training, or even what questions to ask. They see learning to dive as a fun activity and don't understand the inherent dangers if you aren't trained properly. When I first signed up for my OW course, I was clueless. Heck, I didn't even know there were different agencies to be certified through. I had no real conception of being a "safe" diver - I just thought I was going to learn how to dive and have fun. Luckily I was blessed with a great instructor. As clueless as I was at the time, I shudder to think of what could have happened.

By and large, we are a society of comparison shoppers, price-wise. Cost is one of the major deciding factors of what people purchase and where they purchase it from. If they consider the cost "too high", they don't buy it at shop A, they look for it cheaper somewhere else.

I doubt that the majority of people who are interested in taking up diving will do a whole lot of research prior to taking the class. Unless it is explained to them (mid-whine that "shop B is offering classes $XXX cheaper) that they can't shop for the cheapest cost of certification like they can for a loaf of bread at competing supermarkets, they probably have no idea.

Of course, there are those that don't listen even when great advice is given. In those cases, you can't do much about it.

 

[Scuba]

I agree there will always be price conscious shoppers who for various reasons place most of the the emphasis on price neglecting to consider the overall long term cost.

But I think part of the blame has to be attributed to the most popular certification agencies who have failed to provide a consistent and quality product - the instructor. As someone metioned Goodyear will not sell blemished tires, unlike the certification agencies. All one has to do is read this board to hear the horror stories about blemished and worst product.

When one of these agencies decides to concentrate on quality and not quantity they will probably reap its rewards. It appears to me that in this "sport", which is dependant on life support equipment and skills, a track record of exceptional training would be a major selling point.

From what I read on this board DIR appears to be quite thorough in training, but in my opinion it is to restrictive to appeal to the casual rec. diver.

Peter

 

[jbd]

that most of what DIR came from has to do with technical diving and cave exploration which doesn't appeal to the recreational masses. Given the environment that these folks were diving in, it makes perfect sense to standardize equipment and techniques.

As for the techniques, DIR diving requires a high level of polish on skills as a means of enhancing safety. Especially when it comes to bouyancy control I think many folks could learn something from the DIR bunch.

These skills can't be adequately taught in a cheap course because cheap course can't afford to offer the time necessary to convey the message.

 

[scuba-sass]

And have you noticed we pretty much all agree?

I think we're "preaching to the choir" here. Once you find this board, you're more than half way to realizing there is a whole lot of good and bad information out there.

When my partner and I chose an LDS and corresponding certifying agency (SSI), we based it on proximity to our home. Not our most enlightened decision, but we didn't know any better. We ended up with a LOUSY instructor, who thankfully - only taught that one class before they canned him. As far as I know, Lydia and I are the only members of our class (just 9 months ago!) still diving. Thankfully, Lyd and I are capable of "reading between the lines", and gained quite a bit from other DM's involved in our class, and from the LDS folks. Of course, I've found a wealth of info right here on the board!

Now, any ideas on how we can "spread the word" beyond the folks who have already found this font of wisdom? If I had known enough to look for this forum prior to chosing an LDS / instructor / cert. agency - I may have had a much more educational experience.

Thoughts to ponder...

Scuba-sass

 

[Spectre]

Originally posted by roxy271
Than when i tell them the price they tell me well the shop down the road will do it cheaper.

Ask them "If you had a life-threatening problem, would you shop around for the cheapest doctor?"

 

[roxy271]

Originally posted by Spectre


Ask them "If you had a life-threatening problem, would you shop around for the cheapest doctor?"

Generally i will ask people what is more important to them to get the right skills or to save a few dollars.
For some reason when it comes to Scuba people think of it as if they where shopping for a pair of socks not for something that could kill them if done wrong.
But i guess in part it comes from people not knowing what it is all about.
Maybe one of these times i will have someone calling the store and ask about the instructor or how we teach befor the price MAYBE.

 

[TTOUPS]

This one's easy. No aspiring new diver is going to have a clue as to what constitutes superior instruction. They are going to shop for instruction pretty much like they shop for most other things: They'll look at price, proximity to home and (hopefully) get a recommendation from someone they trust.
With the exception of the medical professionals on this board, that's also how most of us laymen shop for medical and dental services! We're out of our depth (no pun intended) in a highly technical field, we may be a bit frightened and overwhelmed and -- unless we have superlative insurance -- are very concerned about the costs involved. The latter becomes increasingly more significant as the economy slows.
Also, I think the public gets conflicting messages about diving. It's promoted by the industry as an extremely safe recreational activity, yet there is still a certain marketing appeal to the daredevil mentality. I think the average potential student will figure that if it's all that safe they might as well get the best price and the most convenient location, while still basking in the glow of being a SCUBA DIVER... The profusion of different certifying agencies only confuses the student's choices further still, as does the issue of retailing pressures which many instructors must contend with to make a living.
What's the answer? I sure don't know, but I hope the consciencious instructors still all try to do a good job.

Best regards
Doc

 

[roxy271]

Originally posted by scuba-sass
And have you noticed we pretty much all agree?

I think we're "preaching to the choir" here. Once you find this board, you're more than half way to realizing there is a whole lot of good and bad information out there.

When my partner and I chose an LDS and corresponding certifying agency (SSI), we based it on proximity to our home. Not our most enlightened decision, but we didn't know any better. We ended up with a LOUSY instructor, who thankfully - only taught that one class before they canned him. As far as I know, Lydia and I are the only members of our class (just 9 months ago!) still diving. Thankfully, Lyd and I are capable of "reading between the lines", and gained quite a bit from other DM's involved in our class, and from the LDS folks. Of course, I've found a wealth of info right here on the board!

Now, any ideas on how we can "spread the word" beyond the folks who have already found this font of wisdom? If I had known enough to look for this forum prior to chosing an LDS / instructor / cert. agency - I may have had a much more educational experience.

Thoughts to ponder...

Scuba-sass

I try to do it thru education i am not an instructor yet i am working on it so i spend a lot of time with the instructors out of my store.
We have two instructors who are PADI and NAUI certified and are both good at there jobs they belive that there students should be able to save themselfs as well as be able to save another diver.
I belive a lot of trining should go into the basic class because not enough people ever take the next class they belive that now they can learn on there own.
And that is usually when people get killed or hurt.

Well i hope you are injoying your diving now.

 

[neil]

Roxy,
Been there, done that.
As a dive shop employee you have to decide whether you want this customer or not. If not, tell them the cost and let them hang up. If you want their business, you have to turn on some salemanship. I'm no great saleman myself, but here's what you might consider. Consider that they don't know what they are asking about. Yet.
"Hello. How much is your scuba course?"
"Thanks for calling. Let me tell you what our course includes. Yadda yadda yadda. And all that for the all-inclusive price of $$$." If they say, "that's expensive", ask "compared to what?", and listen. Be prepared with a really good answer to the agency question without mud-slinging.
Hopefully you've done your homework and your course actually IS a better value than your competitor. Mention how much experience your people have. Invite them to look over the facility. Make an appointment and meet them yourself. In other words, put some effort into it.
Is it a pain? Yes, if you hate selling like I did, but it more often than not works. If you love selling, sell. We complain that potential students don't know what's up, so you have to tell them.
Good luck.
Neil

 

[art.chick]

Yes, I agree that the "race to the bottom" effect has invaded diving education. As long as there is someone out there making $5 sneakers, why would anyone buy $60 sneakers? Well, they do - "image" has been the key.

The way diving vacations is promoted, the demand for cheap, fast training is being indulged. How about the demand for solid competence? Is that being cultivated? Do potential students know that is an option? What if interested parties made media pieces for public access TV? A student film about a dedicated diving instructor in their town would give someone a chance to explain what can be learned if given a longer, more thorough training course.

An LDS that offers such a class could help finance such a project. It would not have to be expensive. If potential students saw some footage of real people doing rescue drills & OOA practice, they would know what classes are supposed to contain. There could be interviews with local lifeguards who tell what mistakes they see divers make who are not prepared for a variety of conditions...and if you need a cartoon segment, call me!