Finder's fee for recovered camera- is it appropriate?

[Schwob]

I think the dive world (for the most part) has a different make up of people than that of the rest of the world in general. Diving is not cheap so that rules out many people with lower income being able to enjoy the sport. I think a lot of petty theft offenders, not all, would fall into the non diving bracket. And I would think any diver who has ever lost anything would be more apt to feel for someone else losing something. Those same people might not return something found while they aren't on a dive trip, but it's different while diving. You share commonality with them.

Maybe you haven't come across a lost item while diving yet. For me it's exciting to know that I can recover something and get it back to it's owner. Part of the joy in the recovery is the joy of the owner upon return. It never occurs to me to keep it to myself.

Lastly even if someone wanted to keep something they found how are they going to come back up on a boat with a big rig like that and everyone not know they didn't take it down with them?

Granted, my diving experience is limited to two LOB weeks a few boat dives making up 1/2 of my dives and a bunch of shore dives the other half. I do not have that big of a sample on divers. I do agree, they generally are a great bunch. But just one bad apple can ruin it of course. By my life experience I can't say anything other than that I would be quite happy if someone returned my camera to me.

I recall the thread (not finding it) on a busted wealthy diver making it a sport to steal other divers gear at dive lockers... I seem to think on Bonaire (where I did many of my shore dives, had a good experience, but also left nothing to chance, but because I went there I recall that thread)

Anyway, I also don't think I wrote anything that should have you stipulate that might have never found or returned anything. I thought I pretty much explained that I very much would return it if I found it.. and I would be happy to do it...

I get what you are saying so. I may even feel and hope the same way. Not in a very trusting way so. It just takes one bad apple ... and during non diving times at least, I've just seen too much...

Wondering: if you noticed someone bringing a camera on board that you have reason to think might not be theirs, what would you do?
I mean, you would not have left it down there. You have no real reason to question their morals or honest intentions... What would you do?

What is the right thing to do to find the owner? Giving it to the operator? Local police station? Posting on SB (where presumably a small percentage of divers may see it in the short period it is new and high up in searches? Sure looking at the pics and seeing if there are clues there. Some have the first pic always their contact info, some label their gear, some do both... But in the absence of that, and in the absence of an official "found goods bureau", what is the right thing to do?

I mean the chances of finding the owner are there, but not that great...
In summary, again if anyone returned my gear to me I would just be really happy and grateful... and would show it.

 

[Storker]

, I wish I wouldn't have started this thread and I tried to delete it, but evidently the MODS like juicy topics so here we are.

That's not the reason. The reason is that per established SB policy, threads aren't deleted unless there are compelling reasons for it. Has nothing to do with the mods' affection for juice

 

[Wookie]

I
Again, I wish I wouldn't have started this thread and I tried to delete it, but evidently the MODS like juicy topics so here we are.

My two cents

It has nothing to do with juicy topics, it has to do with the ToS. We don't delete threads. Unless they are causing a tremendous amount of disruption, or are against the ToS. Then, we rarely delete them, we may moderate them. Sounds like you aren't getting the answer you want, so you want the whole thing to go away. Life isn't like that, nope. That's lesson 1.

Until you reported the thread as wanting to delete it, it wasn't getting much (although it got some) traction. Get all of the mods to take a look it's getting plenty of traction now, wouldn't you say? Lesson 2 for you.

 

[Kicker1866]

No, I got an answer. There was no particular answer I wanted. Remember, I never had a dog in the hunt. What I discovered is that there were a lot of diverse opinions on the topic and some of those opinions started becoming a little more negative towards the dive op than I believed was accurate given the circumstances.

Perhaps I did a very poor job of communicating the situation and because of that I wanted the thread deleted simply because it was neve my intention to throw shade on anyone involved.

As to my use of the term "juicy", I was told threads are not deleted when they garner interest.... as this one did, this a "juicy" topic. I use the term "juicy" to describe any topic of interest...not to describe something slanderous of gossipy.

The only lesson learned, or rather re-learned, is that much gets lost in translation on chat boards and it is a most inefficient way to communicate..... but alas, it is the world we live in.

 

[Kicker1866]

For clarification - no, it is NOT local custom and is not the norm. However, most people OFFER a reward, but not because it's expected or required. So perhaps that is what the people you reached out to meant.

I did not "override" my crew regarding local custom - it is not local custom to keep things that don't belong to you or to EXPECT and require a reward - it then becomes "ransom" as someone else mentioned. What I did was answer my crews inquiries on what they should do with it and should they be paid for returning it. Returning something that knowingly belongs to another is the right thing to do, period.

On the flip side of that, it is also the right thing to do for the rightful owner to OFFER a reward - but not being coerced or required to engage in a negotiation of said reward - ESPECIALLY by a third party.

I'll add another example. Several years back a squall came out of nowhere. A snorkel boat was overtaken by a rogue wave and many of the occupants personal belongings were lost. a few days later, one of my crew members found a purse underwater. It had a wallet full of cash and credit cards, a camera, a cell phone, a hotel room key card (from Playa del Carmen) a passsport, and some other non essential items. My crew member brought it to the office and I spent the next several days trying to locate this visitor. I spent a good 10 hours over the course of the next couple of weeks on this. Ultimately, I was successful in locating the owners and mailed her entire purse and contents (even the non working cell phone and camera and yes the cash and credit cards too). I did not ask for a reward, nor did I expect one - it was just the right thing to do.

Pedro, my main DM's gear was stolen from his home awhile back. We offered a reward for it's return - not because it was expected, but because it is the right thing to do.

If this had been a salvage effort, totally different story. But certainly not among recreational divers as Northernone put so well in an earlier post.

Christi, first thank you for your reply. The response from Dive Ops was primarily what I was looking for. I have spoken to some that agree with you and I have spoken to some that have told me it IS the way things are done. Interestingly, the ones who agree with you are American. And look, the original reason for my post was because this whole situation surprised me a bit. Me? Sure, I would toss the guy is his camera and wave bye-bye. Just the culture I was raised in. I have enough money that I do not need to identify these interactions as a monetary windfall. But, I am also not so blind that I cannot understand how other cultures may not treat this the same way. So, all I can do is believe that it is a customary thing that is not followed by all, but by some. As I have stated, there were many subtle parts of this exchange that I am sure I did not properly communicate. For example, my dive op was not a third-party. Upon surfacing, my friend GAVE him the camera. My friend told him that he had no need for it and to just use it in the shop or something. At that point, my friend was really out of it as well. Thus, my dive op was the person with possession of the camera. Honestly, the original owner of the camera did not seen to have a problem with paying the $60....it was his operator who butted heads with my operator. My op gave the $60 to my buddy.

I hope I have not offended you, or anyone else for that matter. I enjoy your posts and input on the board. I probably should have realized there would be lost of opinions on this and I really hate starting a post that tends to have controversy.
Let's just all get back to diving and giving one another the OK signal.

 

[Christi]

Christi, first thank you for your reply. The response from Dive Ops was primarily what I was looking for. I have spoken to some that agree with you and I have spoken to some that have told me it IS the way things are done. Interestingly, the ones who agree with you are American. And look, the original reason for my post was because this whole situation surprised me a bit. Me? Sure, I would toss the guy is his camera and wave bye-bye. Just the culture I was raised in. I have enough money that I do not need to identify these interactions as a monetary windfall. But, I am also not so blind that I cannot understand how other cultures may not treat this the same way. So, all I can do is believe that it is a customary thing that is not followed by all, but by some. As I have stated, there were many subtle parts of this exchange that I am sure I did not properly communicate. For example, my dive op was not a third-party. Upon surfacing, my friend GAVE him the camera. My friend told him that he had no need for it and to just use it in the shop or something. At that point, my friend was really out of it as well. Thus, my dive op was the person with possession of the camera. Honestly, the original owner of the camera did not seen to have a problem with paying the $60....it was his operator who butted heads with my operator. My op gave the $60 to my buddy.

I hope I have not offended you, or anyone else for that matter. I enjoy your posts and input on the board. I probably should have realized there would be lost of opinions on this and I really hate starting a post that tends to have controversy.
Let's just all get back to diving and giving one another the OK signal.

Haha - actually - I was going to ask you about the owners - were they local or ex-pat? I think that does actually make a difference in the way this is viewed.

AND - I probably know your dive op owner - and if it a local guy, may very well be one of my friends - actually I am very good friends with some ex-pat shop owners too for that matter - haha. I appreciate your clarification too - and TRUST me when I say I TOTALLY GET IT how things can be hard to communicate and come across wrong and misinterpreted in writing. I feel your pain there!

I'm glad it was resolved and that the camera was returned to it's rightful owner. The most important thing is that all parties involved feel good about what happened - truthfully, it's no one else's business and no one's business to judge - and yes, I am guilty of that myself. We are all imperfect humans doing the best we can on good days and bad days.

Enjoy the rest of your trip!

 

[AdivingBel]

@Kicker1866 , I wouldn't sweat it. You didn't mention your dive op in your original post because you were posing a question and you weren't sure of your interpretation...kudos to you. On further reflection you now feel you may have inadvertently misrepresented the situation (??)...no harm, no foul...happens all the time. Whether you interpreted the situation correctly is really kind of moot as we deal with hypotheticals all the time on SB and your post spurred a valid discussion. It's good to be reminded about "how the world works," and the part we play in it. Be happy. Play on...

 

[sharky60]

thank you for answers. I would like to delete thread. Is this possible?

if you want to delete the tread, just send a message to the SB site monitors and they will do it.

p.s. I have NEVER heard of a dive op charging a "fee" or "negotiation a reward" for a found item of any kind on the island ...

 

[kelemvor]

In the water things may be different, I guess. On land, at least in Florida, you're required to turn found items into the police. If you fail to do so, then you are guilty of theft. The police hang onto whatever it is for some amount of time and if the owner doesn't turn up then you can claim ownership of whatever you found.

 

[ReefHound]

Honestly, the original owner of the camera did not seen to have a problem with paying the $60....it was his operator who butted heads with my operator. My op gave the $60 to my buddy.

And what would have happened if the original owner didn't have $60 on him to give? When I go diving I often leave my wallet in the room safe and take just enough cash for the tip.