Finder's fee for recovered camera- is it appropriate?

[Wookie]

Completely as an aside, as I think "Finders Keepers" is completely appropriate, with the caveat that if something is readily identifiable than the first owner should have right of first refusal, I have a friend who has recovered upwards of 50 Go-Pro's in Key Largo. These are recovered off of the SG, the Duane and Bibb, the Eagle. They are usually a hundred or 200 feet or so off the wreck, and after a holiday weekend, he goes Go-Pro hunting. He dives on Rainbow Reef, Horizon, and a number of other boats. If you can identify the go-pro, you get your camera back. Most folks have no identification on their cameras at all.

He puts a lot of cameras on craig's list.

 

[Schwob]

Completely as an aside, as I think "Finders Keepers" is completely appropriate, with the caveat that if something is readily identifiable than the first owner should have right of first refusal, I have a friend who has recovered upwards of 50 Go-Pro's in Key Largo. These are recovered off of the SG, the Duane and Bibb, the Eagle. They are usually a hundred or 200 feet or so off the wreck, and after a holiday weekend, he goes Go-Pro hunting. He dives on Rainbow Reef, Horizon, and a number of other boats. If you can identify the go-pro, you get your camera back. Most folks have no identification on their cameras at all.

He puts a lot of cameras on craig's list.

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I am not opinionating here on you or your friends opinion / practice - it may very well be the most practical thing to do considering there is commonly is no local dedicated "found things bureau" in the US that such things might end up in...
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Just closing the loop on my earlier reporting on the German custom / law (not at sea, on land): There, if found items have not been claimed within a year I think, then the findet gets to claim them. But claiming found goods - albeit commonly done - w/o that would technically be considered theft there - I think.
Does the stick of that and the carrot of a finders fee make a difference there in people's behavior? No idea.

 

[Storker]

Just closing the loop on my earlier reporting on the German custom / law (not at sea, on land): There, if found items have not been claimed within a year I think, then the findet gets to claim them. But claiming found goods - albeit commonly done - w/o that would technically be considered theft there - I think.

AFAIK, the rules are pretty similar here on the other side of the North Sea. Finder's isn't keeper's unless there's been a bona fide attempt to locate the owner of the item, and the owner can't be located.

 

[Brodydog]

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(Edit: Very happy! because, by my life experience a far lower percentagevof people is as honest as the percentage proclaiming so in this thread - just my experience).

I think the dive world (for the most part) has a different make up of people than that of the rest of the world in general. Diving is not cheap so that rules out many people with lower income being able to enjoy the sport. I think a lot of petty theft offenders, not all, would fall into the non diving bracket. And I would think any diver who has ever lost anything would be more apt to feel for someone else losing something. Those same people might not return something found while they aren't on a dive trip, but it's different while diving. You share commonality with them.

Maybe you haven't come across a lost item while diving yet. For me it's exciting to know that I can recover something and get it back to it's owner. Part of the joy in the recovery is the joy of the owner upon return. It never occurs to me to keep it to myself.

Lastly even if someone wanted to keep something they found how are they going to come back up on a boat with a big rig like that and everyone not know they didn't take it down with them?

 

[Couv]

Is it possible that something has been lost in translation? If I remember correctly, the word "ransom" was used somewhere in this thread. A ransom is very different than a "custom." Do we, the readers, know exactly what the OP is saying? Did the OP know exactly what the two divemasters were saying to each other? Could this "ransom" have been nothing more than, "Usually when something of this value is lost and found, the finder gets a reward." I don't speak Spanish, and if a similar exchange as described happened in front of me, I assure you I would not know exactly what went down.

 

[Wookie]

It turns out that most dive boats in Key West have a ton of bright green lead weights. Why is that important? Because on the Spree, we painted our leads safety green, the Fling painted theirs eye hurting orange. Anyway, I was at an event not too long ago where the captain of the boat from the shop where we bought our leads was remarking that he had 50 or so lbs of our weights on his boat, and another captain piped up and mentioned that he had 75 or so lbs.

Now, in the grand scheme of things, that is a pretty small expense compared to the cost of running a liveaboard. But that's a pretty crappy deal where the shop who sold you the lead found your lead, identified it as yours, kept it, and sold you more lead. Y'all talk about how divers are better or more honest or something than anyone else....

 

[Brodydog]

It turns out that most dive boats in Key West have a ton of bright green lead weights. Why is that important? Because on the Spree, we painted our leads safety green, the Fling painted theirs eye hurting orange. Anyway, I was at an event not too long ago where the captain of the boat from the shop where we bought our leads was remarking that he had 50 or so lbs of our weights on his boat, and another captain piped up and mentioned that he had 75 or so lbs.

Now, in the grand scheme of things, that is a pretty small expense compared to the cost of running a liveaboard. But that's a pretty crappy deal where the shop who sold you the lead found your lead, identified it as yours, kept it, and sold you more lead. Y'all talk about how divers are better or more honest or something than anyone else....

I stand corrected. I guess I just want to put my morals on everyone else.

 

[Wookie]

I stand corrected. I get I just want to put my morals on everyone else.

Comment wasn't specific to you. We all want others to be as moral as we are.

 

[Kicker1866]

I truly wish I had not begun this thread as I see there are a ton of different opinions and some of them negative toward my friend who owns the shop.

I do not speak Spanish, so I cannot speak with 100% certainty as to their conversation. I was hoping to get feedback from locals on the practice because I think what we have here is simply different cultural norms.

While in the US or other wealthier areas, it may be second nature to toss the found gear back to the owner, in other cultures some monetary compensation may be the norm. Even in her response, Christie acknowledged that her crew, upon finding the boat bumper, expected compensation/reward. However, as shop owner, she was in a position to have her norm override that of her crew.

I reached out to many people I know in the industry who have worked on the island and who have ran Ops down there. I am secure in knowing What occurred was not out of the ordinary and was not "ransom" or "extortion" but rather a cultural norm. It is not for me or my friends to interfere with cultural norms. My dive op perceived the situation as one where the other DM was attempting to operate outside of what was customary because we were foreigners.... this he sought to protect us.

I think it is important to understand that if this is the unwritten rule between boats then that is simply how it is done and it is not our place to interject our own cultural norms into the fray.

My op is my friend, runs a great shop. Is safe and cares about EVERYONE in the water as well as the preservation of our underwater playground.

Again, I wish I wouldn't have started this thread and I tried to delete it, but evidently the MODS like juicy topics so here we are.

My two cents

 

[Christi]

I truly wish I had not begun this thread as I see there are a ton of different opinions and some of them negative toward my friend who owns the shop.

I do not speak Spanish, so I cannot speak with 100% certainty as to their conversation. I was hoping to get feedback from locals on the practice because I think what we have here is simply different cultural norms.

While in the US or other wealthier areas, it may be second nature to toss the found gear back to the owner, in other cultures some monetary compensation may be the norm. Even in her response, Christie acknowledged that her crew, upon finding the boat bumper, expected compensation/reward. However, as shop owner, she was in a position to have her norm override that of her crew.

I reached out to many people I know in the industry who have worked on the island and who have ran Ops down there. I am secure in knowing What occurred was not out of the ordinary and was not "ransom" or "extortion" but rather a cultural norm. It is not for me or my friends to interfere with cultural norms. My dive op perceived the situation as one where the other DM was attempting to operate outside of what was customary because we were foreigners.... this he sought to protect us.

I think it is important to understand that if this is the unwritten rule between boats then that is simply how it is done and it is not our place to interject our own cultural norms into the fray.

My op is my friend, runs a great shop. Is safe and cares about EVERYONE in the water as well as the preservation of our underwater playground.

Again, I wish I wouldn't have started this thread and I tried to delete it, but evidently the MODS like juicy topics so here we are.

My two cents

For clarification - no, it is NOT local custom and is not the norm. However, most people OFFER a reward, but not because it's expected or required. So perhaps that is what the people you reached out to meant.

I did not "override" my crew regarding local custom - it is not local custom to keep things that don't belong to you or to EXPECT and require a reward - it then becomes "ransom" as someone else mentioned. What I did was answer my crews inquiries on what they should do with it and should they be paid for returning it. Returning something that knowingly belongs to another is the right thing to do, period.

On the flip side of that, it is also the right thing to do for the rightful owner to OFFER a reward - but not being coerced or required to engage in a negotiation of said reward - ESPECIALLY by a third party.

I'll add another example. Several years back a squall came out of nowhere. A snorkel boat was overtaken by a rogue wave and many of the occupants personal belongings were lost. a few days later, one of my crew members found a purse underwater. It had a wallet full of cash and credit cards, a camera, a cell phone, a hotel room key card (from Playa del Carmen) a passsport, and some other non essential items. My crew member brought it to the office and I spent the next several days trying to locate this visitor. I spent a good 10 hours over the course of the next couple of weeks on this. Ultimately, I was successful in locating the owners and mailed her entire purse and contents (even the non working cell phone and camera and yes the cash and credit cards too). I did not ask for a reward, nor did I expect one - it was just the right thing to do.

Pedro, my main DM's gear was stolen from his home awhile back. We offered a reward for it's return - not because it was expected, but because it is the right thing to do.

If this had been a salvage effort, totally different story. But certainly not among recreational divers as Northernone put so well in an earlier post.