Finally completed my Intro to cave course but...

[Atomic_Diver]

Peter Guy-

I did my Intro with Singles HP Steel 110

 

[bamamedic]

I do belive that the devils ear is on the top of my list, I am going to try to get some pics from the entrance looking up if I can manage to keep the camera still with that flow, but my dads friend is a Cavern-extended range cave instructor, and my dad said something about him takeing us on a guided dive so I guess we might get to do a couple jumps, but anyways Can you reccomend any cool or intresting rooms/tunnels in the ear? most prefferd little or very course silt, since my dad is only a OW diver with 23 dives since 1986.

Coming from someone who is guilty of "going too far, too fast", please stick to your level of training and experience for now. I read on one of your previous posts that you're only 15....you've got plenty of time for diving, but not if you do something stupid while you're young.

I don't know crap about cave diving, but I do know that those jumps/gaps will still be there when you have the training and certifications in order to take them.

Unfortunately, I'm in the position of going "oh, ****...I really have no clue as to what the hell I"m doing". Trust me (please trust me on this one!) that is not a fun place to be! Stick to the rules of cave diving, dive within your limits, and don't do the "trust me" dive thing, or else you'll, like me, think that you're qualified to plan dives that you have no business even thinking about...and that's when bad stuff happens.

 

[ianr33]

Ianr33-

his name was Jose Correa

Thanks

Would you do something for me please?

Read this thread http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...d-school-sink-aka-waynes-world-hudson-fl.html before breaking your training limits.

The caves aren't going anywhere.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

hey whoa... hold on a second, 1.) my instructor from Mexico told me and my dad that the devils ear would be safe for him to dive in as long as we had a guide so please don't blame me for some info I was told by someone else, and 2.) I said a Cavern - (Through) Extended Range Cave instructor; or so he told me. 3.) Yes it is possible to do a dive that is a "level up" as long as you have a guide that is a instructor to levels at, and surpassing the "level up" dive you request according to NACD/NSS-CDS-(ex president), and TDI Extended range cave diving instructor: Johnny Richards website

3. You'd be diving atleast one level up if you are doing jumps and circuits, but doing multiple jumps and circuits will put you above Apprentice, and into Cave range(2 levels up). Your dad on the otherhand, will be diving atleast 3 certifications above where he should be and he'll be in WAY over his head.

to answer your question divestoclimb...... 5 rules:
1.) be trained in cave diving & stay within your limits

You are grosely breaking this rule.... by ALOT.

The two of you are much better off sticking to the sites that will allow open water divers in like the main Ginnie Spring cavern and Blue Grotto (assuming that one's not blown out). Maybe you can buddy up with that instructor (alone) for an intro-level dive or two.

Blue Grotto doesn't really blow out, cept when careless fin kicks get ahold of the bottom...

 

[contender]

In fact, the last Intro and OW divers that I know of that went into a cave where neither belonged are dead. Their waterlogged, bleeding bodies were dragged out of the cave. When their masks and hoods were taken off the blood splattered everywhere, their eyes were bleeding, their noses and mouths, and oh yeah, THEY WERE DEAD!!!!!!!!! .

Don,
That was a little UNCALLED for. They were dead would have worked fine.

 

[ESG]

Don,
That was a little UNCALLED for. They were dead would have worked fine.

I disagree. I think it is important to visualize how terrifying their last moments were and what the people who recovered them had to deal with.

Atomic-

Please listen to what InkDiver said. You asked about cool tunnels and jumps to do in Ginnie. You said you were trained in a single tank. A diver in a single tank has no business being off the main line. It will put you in extreme danger. So will diving doubles without proper training.

I am 23 years old. I started cave diving when I was 21. I thought at that time that I had already lost my innocence. Boy was I wrong. Please be mindful as you enter this world of cave diving that it is not all fun, games, and guided dives. People you know will die. You will not understand how this seemingly harmless sport will make you lose sleep at night until it does. You will stay up at night worried about people you don't even know who post about doing dangerous things on the internet. You will look at someone, think to yourself that they are going to die while cave diving and it will happen. I know these things and you will too...and I'm a newbie!!!!

Please be careful. Stay within your limitations. Why try doing dives beyond them "with a guide" when you haven't even seen the cave yet and don't have any dives at that level? And at least try a dive at the Ear before you bring your camera...have respect for the people that have died there. Someone died this year in OPEN WATER at the Ear, it should not be taken lightly.

 

[InkDiver]

Don,
That was a little UNCALLED for. They were dead would have worked fine.

Chad, I respect your opinion on this, and I respect you as a person. I will have to respectfully disagree. The loss of the two divers in question needs to be driven home to anyone who thinks that diving above their limits is a good idea and that they can learn that online. Just saying, "two divers died" tends to sanitize it and allows one to believe it always happens to others.

I'm sure you, like I, have spent time talking with members of the recovery team, and you know that it was not all pretty and sanitized and peaceful. They were shaken, I mean REALLY shaken. Others need to be shaken as well, especially if they are contemplating taking liberties with their training and experience.

 

[ucfdiver]

Atomic-

I'll start this off by saying I'm not "cave" trained, so I'm not giving you advice, just sharing my opinion, as well as questions that I would as MYSELF if I were in your position, so please don't read any more into this than what I'm saying. You've already got plenty of the advice, some of it from experienced cave divers. I just hope that it wasn't so offensive that you're scared to ask for direction in the future. I think I've met at least half the people who have posted what probably seems like offensive posts towards you in here, but I can assure you after meeting them that their intent is to try and stop you from becoming another statistic, even if their tone is rude, please listen and think about what they're saying. Remember that we don't live in a box, each of our actions effect the entire community, you never know when one death could cause long term closure to a cave system, or a "little" cave damage could cause the state to close off a cave...these things are how an individual action can effect the entire community, not to mention how each death causes tons of wives, girlfriends, friends and family to worry about us a little more every time we go diving.

Ginnie is my favorite cave so far. As basic, you can work your way up to the maple leaf on 1/6ths (it takes several dives) if you pay enough attention to the flow and communicate well with your buddy. With 32% you can stay within your minimum decompression limits as your current certification level requires. No need to break air rules and dive to 1/3 to see more cave in Ginnie, as the flow seems to get "weaker" the more you dive there, and you get to see a little more cave as a result. Sticking to 1/6 as Basic I felt really helped me progress as a diver.

Here's an EXCELLENT article by Clare Gledhill that describes how I believe many of us felt when first diving the tremendous flow at Ginnie-
Newby trip to High Springs - DIR Explorers

When I was searching for a cave instructor, the thing that most disturbed me was how many cave instructors truly believe that a cave dive is a solo dive where you have a buddy along. I'm going to be honest, that scares the absolute hell out of me, and I won't take a class from an instructor who makes comments like that. That's not to say my opinion on this won't change with experience (I've changed on a few points of view as I get some experience), but for now, I just don't feel that mentality fits my perception of how I'd like to dive. Frankly I wonder if that's why so many people feel compelled to solo dive so early in their cave diving careers, are bad buddies that come as a result of this mentality? For me a buddy isn't just someone who carries my redundant gas to exit the cave, as I could sling an AL80 and accomplish that, and it would be a whole lot easier than keeping communication between 2 divers during the dive. A buddy is someone who carries a redundant brain to discuss the dive plan and ensure it's safe, someone who can rescue me if I tox or get sick instantly, someone who can signal me if I get narc'ed or have a brain fart and make a mistake, someone who can shine his light when I'm placing a jump, and someone who's there to work with me to ensure we both have a safe and fun dive. Not saying I can't get myself out of most any situation without a buddy, but I love the redundancy, company, and assurance that comes with one. It's just another odd I'm trying to stack in my favor. Heck, there's a "jump" at Ginnie coming off the Hillier Tunnel that's only 1-2ft, but I still gap that "just in case".

I said that to say this. I see diving with a bad or unqualified buddy almost worse than solo diving, because now you've got a liability instead of someone that should be an asset. Your cousin Ryan (if it's the one who goes to FSU that I know) you mentioned is an excellent example of someone I'd want to dive with. I drove 3 hours further than I had to for a diving class just so that I could take it with him, because he's an excellent example of a buddy who makes the dive more enjoyable. His attentiveness made the class a LOT easier, and I have no doubt that in an emergency, I would have been glad to have him as a dive buddy. It's because of positive experiences with buddies like him that I personally am not a fan of the guided dives. I've kind of thought that if you're prepared to do the "next level" of diving, you shouldn't need a guide to do so...go take the class. I think a good long look at what you want a buddy for is necessary for deciding who goes along with you on a dive. How effective would an instructor be during a silt-out on a guided dive? Do you feel confident that your dad would be an asset and not a liability if an emergency came up on the guided dive? If a liability, do you feel comfortable taking him? Even if it's just a one on one dive, are you being a good buddy to the instructor if you haven't gotten the training to dive at the higher level? These are the questions I'd ask myself, I'll leave out my answers so I don't bias your opinion. If the guided dives included the same instruction as the course does, I'd have no problem going on one, but I don't think that's the case, or the cost of a guided dive would be a lot higher?

Take a look at this thread on TheDecoStop, The Deco Stop. Several experienced cave divers offering to mentor divers. While I'd be glad to do an experience dive with you, these divers are sharing their time to mentor you, I would take them up on it!

If you'd like to dive Ginnie, feel free to let me know. I'm in no way prepared to mentor at ANY level as the members on TDS offered, but I can dive with you so you can gain some experience, and I have no issues limiting our penetration to 1/6 of doubles (or 1/3 if you're on a single). I have Dec 20th-> Jan 4th off, and I'll be @ my parents place, which is minutes from Ginnie. With a Ginnie pass, I don't mind going there even if it's just for a dive or two. I believe your cousin is even stopping by for a day and diving either Ginnie or Manatee with me during that period. His gf is cavern certified, so he dives to a lower level all the time, and I'm sure he'd be glad to dive at the intro level with you.

 

[contender]

Atomic-

I'll start this off by saying I'm not "cave" trained, so I'm not giving you advice, just sharing my opinion, as well as questions that I would as MYSELF if I were in your position, so please don't read any more into this than what I'm saying. You've already got plenty of the advice, some of it from experienced cave divers. I just hope that it wasn't so offensive that you're scared to ask for direction in the future. I think I've met at least half the people who have posted what probably seems like offensive posts towards you in here, but I can assure you after meeting them that their intent is to try and stop you from becoming another statistic, even if their tone is rude, please listen and think about what they're saying. Remember that we don't live in a box, each of our actions effect the entire community, you never know when one death could cause long term closure to a cave system, or a "little" cave damage could cause the state to close off a cave...these things are how an individual action can effect the entire community, not to mention how each death causes tons of wives, girlfriends, friends and family to worry about us a little more every time we go diving.

Ginnie is my favorite cave so far. As basic, you can work your way up to the maple leaf on 1/6ths (it takes several dives) if you pay enough attention to the flow and communicate well with your buddy. With 32% you can stay within your minimum decompression limits as your current certification level requires. No need to break air rules and dive to 1/3 to see more cave in Ginnie, as the flow seems to get "weaker" the more you dive there, and you get to see a little more cave as a result. Sticking to 1/6 as Basic I felt really helped me progress as a diver.

Here's an EXCELLENT article by Clare Gledhill that describes how I believe many of us felt when first diving the tremendous flow at Ginnie-
Newby trip to High Springs - DIR Explorers

When I was searching for a cave instructor, the thing that most disturbed me was how many cave instructors truly believe that a cave dive is a solo dive where you have a buddy along. I'm going to be honest, that scares the absolute hell out of me, and I won't take a class from an instructor who makes comments like that. That's not to say my opinion on this won't change with experience (I've changed on a few points of view as I get some experience), but for now, I just don't feel that mentality fits my perception of how I'd like to dive. Frankly I wonder if that's why so many people feel compelled to solo dive so early in their cave diving careers, are bad buddies that come as a result of this mentality? For me a buddy isn't just someone who carries my redundant gas to exit the cave, as I could sling an AL80 and accomplish that, and it would be a whole lot easier than keeping communication between 2 divers during the dive. A buddy is someone who carries a redundant brain to discuss the dive plan and ensure it's safe, someone who can rescue me if I tox or get sick instantly, someone who can signal me if I get narc'ed or have a brain fart and make a mistake, someone who can shine his light when I'm placing a jump, and someone who's there to work with me to ensure we both have a safe and fun dive. Not saying I can't get myself out of most any situation without a buddy, but I love the redundancy, company, and assurance that comes with one. It's just another odd I'm trying to stack in my favor. Heck, there's a "jump" at Ginnie coming off the Hillier Tunnel that's only 1-2ft, but I still gap that "just in case".

I said that to say this. I see diving with a bad or unqualified buddy almost worse than solo diving, because now you've got a liability instead of someone that should be an asset. Your cousin Ryan (if it's the one who goes to FSU that I know) you mentioned is an excellent example of someone I'd want to dive with. I drove 3 hours further than I had to for a diving class just so that I could take it with him, because he's an excellent example of a buddy who makes the dive more enjoyable. His attentiveness made the class a LOT easier, and I have no doubt that in an emergency, I would have been glad to have him as a dive buddy. It's because of positive experiences with buddies like him that I personally am not a fan of the guided dives. I've kind of thought that if you're prepared to do the "next level" of diving, you shouldn't need a guide to do so...go take the class. I think a good long look at what you want a buddy for is necessary for deciding who goes along with you on a dive. How effective would an instructor be during a silt-out on a guided dive? Do you feel confident that your dad would be an asset and not a liability if an emergency came up on the guided dive? If a liability, do you feel comfortable taking him? Even if it's just a one on one dive, are you being a good buddy to the instructor if you haven't gotten the training to dive at the higher level? These are the questions I'd ask myself, I'll leave out my answers so I don't bias your opinion. If the guided dives included the same instruction as the course does, I'd have no problem going on one, but I don't think that's the case, or the cost of a guided dive would be a lot higher?

Take a look at this thread on TheDecoStop, The Deco Stop. Several experienced cave divers offering to mentor divers. While I'd be glad to do an experience dive with you, these divers are sharing their time to mentor you, I would take them up on it!

If you'd like to dive Ginnie, feel free to let me know. I'm in no way prepared to mentor at ANY level as the members on TDS offered, but I can dive with you so you can gain some experience, and I have no issues limiting our penetration to 1/6 of doubles (or 1/3 if you're on a single). I have Dec 20th-> Jan 4th off, and I'll be @ my parents place, which is minutes from Ginnie. With a Ginnie pass, I don't mind going there even if it's just for a dive or two. I believe your cousin is even stopping by for a day and diving either Ginnie or Manatee with me during that period. His gf is cavern certified, so he dives to a lower level all the time, and I'm sure he'd be glad to dive at the intro level with you.

And to this I would add, a buddy is someone who can get on to you for silting out Telford. Atomic, I will also take the time to dive with you and show you Ginnie or anyother cave you want to see. Understand though, if you go with me you will "STAY WITHIN YOUR LIMITS OF TRAINING" this means no jumps for you, only mainline. PM me if you are interested.

 

[tflaris]

I do belive that the devils ear is on the top of my list, I am going to try to get some pics from the entrance looking up if I can manage to keep the camera still with that flow, but my dads friend is a Cavern-extended range cave instructor, and my dad said something about him takeing us on a guided dive so I guess we might get to do a couple jumps, but anyways Can you reccomend any cool or intresting rooms/tunnels in the ear? most prefferd little or very course silt, since my dad is only a OW diver with 23 dives since 1986.

2 Divers died in School Sink that were not formally trained in an overhead environment. Please do not guide anyone into an environment that the are not trained in. Read the sign in your avatar.

Please respect the caves. Please stick to your level of training and progress slowly.

Your life and your Dad's life are very important.