Fin movement?

[Carribeandiver]

This may sound remedial and perhaps it is but I am asking because I do not know the answer.
When trying to be stable in a water column, is there supposed to be some fin movement? Not for swimming but to correct drift, roll, etc? And not a constant fin movement, but an occasional flick, flutter, move.

 

[David P]

well if you want to stay absolutely still and there is any kind of water movement... then I think you would HAVE to fin...

 

[dsteding]

If you mean when hovering motionless (and not finning against current) the answer is yes, the fins should be motionless as well.

At least, that is what I am working towards . . . most of the time I have these little spastic twitches going on, especially if I'm weighted a little light.

 

[Carribeandiver]

If you mean when hovering motionless (and not finning against current) the answer is yes, the fins should be motionless as well.

Yep, that is what I was afraid of. Sigh, I remember when diving was fun and I felt safe. This ill-fated attempt to "Do It Right" is making diving very frustrating and no fun.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

When trying to be stable in a water column, is there supposed to be some fin movement? Not for swimming but to correct drift, roll, etc? And not a constant fin movement, but an occasional flick, flutter, move.

In theory, it should be possible to remain stable without moving your fins at all, but in practice it is very difficult to do so. There is almost always some type of water movement, turbulence, or inherent instability that requires constant minor corrections.

For example, a single tank rig can roll quite a bit, and may tend to flop a little from side to side. Even your breathing will cause slight up and down movements that can throw things off, especially in shallow water. Most people are therefore forced to compensate with occasional slight movements of the fins.

At this stage of your training, I would not concentrate so much on "no movement, period" - an occasional "flick" with your ankle is normal, and almost everyone does it, often without realizing it. What you really want at this point in your diving is enough stability to be able to do basic skills without a lot of excess movement - relaxed breathing throughout the skills, no swimming, no hand sculling, etc. Once you master that, then you can work on fine tuning the "no movement, period" part.

 

[dsteding]

Yep, that is what I was afraid of. Sigh, I remember when diving was fun and I felt safe. This ill-fated attempt to "Do It Right" is making diving very frustrating and no fun.

I have some advice on this front (as a newer diver who has fallen in with a DIR crowd and has taken a couple DIR workshops, with DIR-F coming up end of April):

At least for me, there is a certain sense of satisfaction from working on these skills, they are targets that make us better divers. So, I can find fun in a 30 fsw skills dive where we shoot bags, work on ascents and generally muck things up in the process.

That being said, I see your point. I think it is important to step back and remember that diving IS about having fun. So, keep it that way. You don't need to master these skills overnight, and, quite frankly, the more experienced DIR types that you may be diving with won't expect you to do so. Keep the joy in your diving. Never lose that, because that is why we dive.

If you find yourself frustrated, step back and relax, go on a dive to look at the fishies, forget about worrying whether your fins are twitching. If you take the time to understand the DIR principles, (and most of that, imho, is about working as a team and buddy awareness, not if your fins twitch when hovering), then you'll gradually work towards them.

With fundies coming up, I feel like I'm in the same boat as you. I really want to do well in fundies--it is the Type A person in me. I'm taking it in doubles, and I took a workshop from the instructor last October, so I have a good idea of the skills I'll need to have for the class. Because of that, my last five dives in the past week have been pretty heavily focused on skills. One was a disaster, another went pretty well, and the three yesterday were me helping out as a buddy for an AOW class, where I got to spend a lot of time in midwater and generally racked up bottom time working on buddy awareness, trim, and kicks.

I feel like DIR is both a philosophy that one can buy into at an early stage (by understanding its principles) and an aspirational goal one moves towards by working on skills, team awareness, and generally building depth and breadth of dive experience. The first part--buying into the philosophy--is what draws most people to this type of diving, and can happen relatively quickly (you can adopt the DIR mindset with a bit of commitment to reading, discussing things with other divers and instructors, and generally through honest self-examination of how you approach dives). The second part--DIR as an aspirational goal--necessarily means lots of trials and tribulations along the way. We cannot gain experience overnight.

That is okay, especially if you keep the idea of diving being fun at the forefront of your reasons for diving. So, don't beat yourself up if your trim is off, your backkick sucks, or your fins have spastic little movements when hovering (which, btw, are all problems I deal with). Rather, recognize that those are issues may be there, and take baby-steps along the path of experience building to get past all that.

I think you'll find, ultimately, that DIR diving is actually more enjoyable because of the comfort and predictability that comes from diving as a team with unified procedures, not to mention the satisfaction of eventually nailing that 10 foot stop while reeling up your spool, hovering perfectly motionless and in tune with the ocean.

 

[Carribeandiver]

Just for a brief synopsis of where I am. As you know from my previous posts, I miserably failed GUE DIRF last weekend. I can make some excuses because I was using the BP/W rig for the first time but really, I failed because I am not nearly good enough to even think of taking the class, let alone enrolling.
Yesterday, I spent 3 hours in a pool at my LDS. The sole purpose was to practice buoyancy and trim. The first 30 minutes or so I felt incapable of coming close to good buoyancy and trim. I tried deflating so I could lie on the floor and then inflating just enough so I could rise with a breath and descend when I exaled. I came close but really do not think I was there.
After a short break where I contemplated throwing out this new gear and going back to my jacket BCD, a tech diver came over and we talked. He said I looked fine in the water and he didnt know what I was moaning about. Of course, this guy never heard of GUE and I think his standards are based on the standards for new OW students. (especially since the season's first OW class was going on in the pool at that time and he was there as one of the instructors the class was 19 students).
Anyway, I tried to take the encouragement but kept thinking he didnt know what level I am trying to achieve. I then jumped back in and much to my delight I was much better. I could hover about 2-3 feet off the floor and didnt have "much" of a buoyancy problem but, using a single tank, kept fighting the roll and trying to stay stable in the water column. No current in a pool, even with a zillion people kicking and thrashing about, still it was difficult to remain perfectly still.
I added some trim weight pockets and tried using 1 lb then 2 lbs in each pocket but I didnt feel any difference and have decided to take them off. My 5 foot hose is too short as it is very tight under my right arm so I am going to get a 6 foot hose. The 7 footer is too long and I hate tucking it in my waist strap as that feels out of place and contrary to the reduce drag, minimalistic ideals I am trying to achieve. My HP hose for the SPG is too short, I cant unhook it unless I struggle for 15 minutes and then I cant hook it back. Plus it is pulled tight just to reach the D ring. I am going to get a 24" hose for the SPG even if that is considered too long by GUE, maybe my trunk is long or something but the 22" hose is just too short.
I realize this will take time, patience and practice but it would be nice to at least see some progress. I frankly do not feel any more competent today then I felt last weekend. And, throw in the fact that I have only used this BP/W on practice dives in fresh water and I wonder about weight and how I am going to do in the ocean/Gulf with currents.
I know this is moaning and complaining, sorry about that. If I can ever get decent at this one skill, I am going to feel awfully good about diving again. But in the meantime, it is going to be a nightmare. I wonder if everyone who says, yea, I went threw that, really sucked as much as I do. If everyone was this bad, we would read a lot more accident reports, that I know.
Thanks for the tips and encouragement, it is appreciated. The teamwork philosophy, willingness to help and incredible skills of the GUE DIR divers is what makes me stick with it. I may never get there, but coming close will still be a great accomplishment.

 

[MonkSeal]

I know this is moaning and complaining, sorry about that.

If it makes you feel better ...

In the meantime, before you replace any part of your kit, try to get opinon on that from your GUE instructor.

Regarding the length of SPG hose, it has been discussed in several threads. If it looks correct lenght when you asseble rig (in front of the wing, not too short, easy to unclip and clip off) then it's ok.

 

[TSandM]

I have a 22" hose on one of my SPGs, and it's too short. But it helps to bring the SPG hose OVER my arm, rather than under it, to check the gauge. Another tip is that positioning the D ring on the left hip properly is really critical. If it's just a little too far back toward the plate, it makes it REALLY hard to unclip, and even harder to clip back on. I also use a significantly larger boltsnap on my SPG, to make clipping easier. It takes time to get it right.

Actually, I think that, just like postpartum depression, there's a post-Fundies depression that a lot of us go through. I knew, when I took the class, that I wasn't going to do very well in it, and I was actually pleased at some of the things I did pull off that I didn't really expect to. But overall, my performance was poor, and I begged for my provisional. And I'd been diving the gear for a month before the class.

After class, I used my type A personality and went out and drilled and drilled and got more and more frustrated. A friend gave me a splendid piece of advice. She told me to quit doing practice dives for a while, and just GO DIVING. In fact, my practice buddy and I did a couple of dives just to have fun and take pictures, and I learned that you can work a lot on skills during just any old dive -- See something interesting, try to stop and look at it. Swimming up on a piling? Try just floating barely over it, and see if your knees hit it (trim feedback!) Buddy taking pictures? Try your back kick. Make it fun and organic to the dive, and you'll see progress.

If you're anything like me, it's never going to be enough to satisfy you. I just spent an hour doing drills in preparation for the upcoming Rec Triox class, and there wasn't a thing I did that I couldn't criticize. That's one of the things you need buddies for. They can tell you you're looking pretty good, when all you can think about is that you didn't clip off the primary on the S-drill AGAIN

 

[Clare]

I miserably failed GUE DIRF last weekend. I can make some excuses because I was using the BP/W rig for the first time but really, I failed because I am not nearly good enough to even think of taking the class, let alone enrolling.

Oh boy. Where do we start here my friend?

Fundamentals is a diving course - designed to help you get more out of your diving so it makes me really sad when I hear that people get depressed about it. You have a wonderful hobby which takes you to places that others cannot see, sorting your fundamental skills will help you enjoy it more - not less, I promise.

So how?

First of all - relax. Take in what your instructor told you, and remember every time you get in the water whether it is to practice skills, dive for fun with friends, or do both - you will be making progress.

I made a joke with a friend once that if it is going to take me 100 repetitions to learn something new then every time I do it - regardless of how well I do - it's one more towards my eventual success.

Staying perfectly still - not even sculling the fins - is very hard indeed. Aspire to it by all means, but be kind to yourself if you can't quite manage it yet. You will

Your pressure gauge hose does sound too short. On a single tank a 22 inch hose is often too short - try a longer one. I'd also (personally) try a 7ft hose and get used to tucking it in your belt. It's no big deal for streamlining.

DIR is a journey - like everything which is worth having it takes time and effort but if you can find a way to enjoy the scenery as you travel then you can have a good time getting there too.

I hope that this helps a bit - PM me or email me via the GUE website if you need to talk at all.

Dive safe!