Film and XRays

[blacknet]

Hello,

fine your a high speed low drag professional photographer. Now please tell us lowly peons how you know so much about nuclear engineering when we have a nuclear engineer who backs us up with technical facts, which you ask for in the first place.

Selling photo's has nothing to do with nuclear engineering and physics of airport x-rays. Sure run yours thru the xray machines we don't care if you do that or not. All we are stating is the cold hard facts, which has already been posted. Your mere number of shots has nothing to do with the laws of physics.

Please forgive my humble and lowly amaturish nature as it pales in compairson to your supreme and vastly superior skills in photography, oh and did I forget to mention your recipicocity degree in nuclear engineering.

Ed

 

[James connell]

Dee once babbled...

"Us mere and lowly amateurs are proud of our out of focus, over/under exposed and badly composed photos. And to us it does make a difference how the film they are on is handled."


yeesss, and most toddlers are proud of their potty training.
and one of the traits of the incompotent is a fixation on the trivial.


'If you are here on Scuba Board to help educate us to what you believe are superior talents, your attitude isn't conducive to that."

i'm not here to teach - if you listen you might learn though.
from your attitude i'm sure you already know it all.

"If you are here talk down on us mere amateurs, please go elsewhere...we don't need it."

if you can't discuss PHOTOGRAPHY why are you here?? and do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I'll say it again...with your example of a professional, I'm more than proud to be labeled an amateur.

since your attempting to troll - i'm really impressed with your quality as a moderator

 

[James connell]

blacknet once bubbled...
Hello,

fine your a high speed low drag professional photographer. Now please tell us lowly peons how you know so much about nuclear engineering when we have a nuclear engineer who backs us up with technical facts, which you ask for in the first place.

Selling photo's has nothing to do with nuclear engineering and physics of airport x-rays. Sure run yours thru the xray machines we don't care if you do that or not. All we are stating is the cold hard facts, which has already been posted. Your mere number of shots has nothing to do with the laws of physics.

Please forgive my humble and lowly amaturish nature as it pales in compairson to your supreme and vastly superior skills in photography, oh and did I forget to mention your recipicocity degree in nuclear engineering.

Ed

first:
thank you, but i didn't ask for your praise, i asked for your qualifications - not somebody elses - Your's.


i don't need to know squat about nuclear engineering to now what does or doesn't happen to film.
selling photo's has everthing to do with how they look- if they are out of focus, they don't sell, if they are badly exposed, they don't sell, if they are badly composed, they don't sell, if they are fogged by an xray machine, they don't sell. my pix sell - they aren't fogged. none of 1000s of rolls has been damaged by shipment. the cold hard facts are - it doesn't make any difference.

FWIW there is a technic for pushing paper (and film) called flashing. it takes more than 1 photon to "trip" a silver grain. in order to supersensitize emulsion you can briefly expose it to a light source. this doesn't "fog" the emulsion but it does speed the film up.

 

[blacknet]

James connell once bubbled...


first:
thank you, but i didn't ask for your praise, i asked for your qualifications - not somebody elses - Your's.

read it again, you misunderstood what i said.

i don't need to know squat about nuclear engineering to now what does or doesn't happen to film.
selling photo's has everthing to do with how they look- if they are out of focus, they don't sell, if they are badly exposed, they don't sell, if they are badly composed, they don't sell, if they are fogged by an xray machine, they don't sell. my pix sell - they aren't fogged. none of 1000s of rolls has been damaged by shipment. the cold hard facts are - it doesn't make any difference.

FWIW there is a technic for pushing paper (and film) called flashing. it takes more than 1 photon to "trip" a silver grain. in order to supersensitize emulsion you can briefly expose it to a light source. this doesn't "fog" the emulsion but it does speed the film up.

I beg to differ, I have seen several images in your 'list' that have sold, and sold for alot of money, over $2,000 each. My instructor has an shot of a dolphin, 2 stops under, that went for well over $10,000. It IS possible to sell images, you just have to know what you are doing.

FWIW theavatar already called you on the fogging of film, he is a nuclear engineer and he knows his stuff. If you care to but heads then we can pull out the physics books, tsa regulators and FAA rules/guidelines. The bare fact remains airport X-ray machines DOES and WILL affect film.

On another note your "technic", or as www.dict.org states technique, it's not called 'flashing' that's a laymans term for it. It's called pre-exposure.

Ed

 

[TheAvatar]

I hardly see how a bitter, arrogant, condescending, $&#^@ like James manages to have any clients at all. Nor do I understand why James thinks anyone is going to listen to seriously anything he says as advice given the tone he uses. I cannot fathom how James could possibly accuse someone other than himself of trolling.

On the other hand... if he really does sell 30% of all the frames he shoots... that would be 11 shots on a roll of 36... I would guess he is an event photographer. Not even the wealthiest and most successfull artistic photographer sells 30%. Ansel Adams would be impressed. Artistic photographers are considered to be doing EXTREMELY well if they get one sellable image out of a roll of 36. Perhaps James shoots such photographically challenging situations as highschool graduations. That would be an easy 10 rolls with 30% sales. That is the difference between artistic and commercial. I've seen plenty of "professional" photographers who make a decent living doing event work but who are in fact terrible photographers and can't tell 1/3 stop difference when looking at negatives. When I was doing food advertising photography, I would shoot 2-4 rolls of 36 looking to get 4 pictures for the brochure and the recipe book.

For people who are unfamiliar with the simple term "Semi-Professional Photographer," it is someone who uses their photography for income, but photography is not their primary source of income. I thought I should clear that confusion up for the one person who seemed confused on that rather obvious point.

For the record, I think James conceded the point on X-rays and film in his own way.

if they are fogged by an xray machine, they don't sell

I don't think James is really saying that X-rays don't effect film... James just said... and I paraphrase... "YOU ARE ALL STUPID! HAVE YOUR FILM SENT BY UPS GROUND! I AM BETTER THAN YOU!"

That is, unless I missed something somewhere... which is entirely possibly since I am only human, unlike some of the self proclaimed infallible higher beings that have posted here.

 

[Dee]

I finally made it! It's degrading to exchange quips with someone so full of themselves.

I can't honestly moderate if I'm involved in the exchange, so I'm removing myself from this one. I regret that I caught caught up in such a childish tirade but not for anything I've said.

Blacknet, Avatar...he's all yours but you guys play nice!

 

[blacknet]

Dee,

Congrats on making it!


AHHH do I have to play nice? You take all the fun out of it.

Perhaps we should do some splitting and make this abomination into a new thread?

Ed

 

[Dee]

I consider it dead already. Besides don't we have better things to do than waste our time in such a manor? I know I do!

 

[James connell]

Dee once bubbled...
I finally made it! It's degrading to exchange quips with someone so full of themselves.

I can't honestly moderate if I'm involved in the exchange, so I'm removing myself from this one. I regret that I caught caught up in such a childish tirade but not for anything I've said.

Blacknet, Avatar...he's all yours but you guys play nice!

so i posted an opinion/very experienced professional observation, somebody ASKED for my credentials - and i'v been assalted ever since (even though no one else has presented ANY cerdentials to qualify their opinion in photography.

on rec.scuba it seems the impression is avatar is a janitor at a nuke plant! :boom: <- i really don't like these silly things!

the attitude displayed by 3 members here is exactly the attitude one of them doesn't like. y'all seem to think that if you carryon your film, insist on hand inspection ( to the point of claiming to be a pro shooter, that'll make you a pro. it's that very snobery that you 3 have accused me of.

let me point out - black net in another post reccomened getting film from BH - how do you think you get that film? it's shipped.
how do you think they got it? how do you think your local shop gets it?

if anyone has anything constructive to add to this thread, i'll respond as well until then y'all aint worth the time.

 

[TheAvatar]

James,

Who said there is anything wrong with shipping. Lots of pros ship unexposed film to their destination and shipped the exposed film back home. Others buy and develop all their film on location. You ship your film, but you need to step down long enough to realize that the rest of us mortals may not find that to be the best method for us. Shipping can be a problem, especially if you want your film right away. Shipping to another country can be more troublesome with delays and lost packages. Perhaps your package will sit in the sun on the tarmac for a day. If one is flying and plans to go from the airport to docks for a live aboard, how will the package reach them? Does UPS have speedboats for delivering packages at sea? For a lot of people though, carrying your film with you on the plane is a cheaper, easier, more reliable alternative to shipping. Sometimes it is the only alternative. Therefor, people want to know about the dangers of x-raying their film. I don't think this concept is beyond your mighty professional photographers mind.

on rec.scuba it seems the impression is avatar is a janitor at a nuke plant!

I think you are confused. I have never posted to rec.scuba. I don't do newsgroups... never have. Since you brought this up, I will set the record straight: I studied nuclear engineering at UMR-MSM and trained at the UMR research reactor. I continue to study related issues.

y'all seem to think that if you carryon your film, insist on hand inspection ( to the point of claiming to be a pro shooter, that'll make you a pro

NOBODY CLAIMED THAT EXCEPT YOU, JAMES. A professional photographer is one who makes his living through photography. You are also confusing professional film with professional photographers. Lots of nonprofessionals use professional film as much as that fact may shock you. Claiming to be a professional at the security checkpoint is simply a usefull method to get the TSA to comply with federal regulations... nothing more. I don't know why such a technique woudl bother you so much. You seemed threatened by the prospect of others considering themselves pros... why is that?

I never said anything about qualifications... if anything... I said

I've seen plenty of "professional" photographers who make a decent living doing event work but who are in fact terrible photographers and can't tell 1/3 stop difference when looking at negatives

Qualification is subject to interpretation.

I do agree with James that proper exposure and composition are key. Nobody disputes that. But to try and say that is the only thing is rather silly. You can't practice shooting technique when your in the security line at the airport, so why not do something else to help yourself? I think that anyone has the right to have their film handled properly if they care about it... whether they are a professional or not. I don't know how you could think otherwise.