FI vs CCV Questions

[DandyDon]

Always a lively topic of discussion with the usual suspects and slanted views.

I think 4/day will be our limit on this trip. Maybe do a Nitrox course on the next trip to increase our BT.

Why do a Nx course on a trip? Sorry that bargain I found for you reneged on their ad, but it's just a one evening class. Knock it out at home when you are ready.

Here is a question kind of off topic. We had originally planned a trip in September but someone said it was too risky because of hurricane season so we're thinking of June instead. How is the weather & diving in September versus June.

Someone who actually knows where Roatan is? Been there? I've been there in September once I know, maybe the second time as well altho I'm not sure about it. I always do trip insurance and check forecasts, but never a problem. Of the storms that do go thru the Bay, they tend to be later in the fall.

 

[robint]

The Drop-off dives explained...

morning drop-off dive is on one wall, Newman's wall
afternoon drop-off is on the OTHER wall, CCV wall
there is also the huge shipwreck and airplane is the center area

you are not getting dropped off at the same place twice a day!
in fact, one day we got our boat to go to a different reef for the second dive and gave them a big tip for it extra (we did this because it was raining and we new the channel would have lousy vis, the DM and boat capt actually suggested it to us!)

we never got bored with the drop-offs, in fact, we enjoyed them immensely as we did a different area or depth, went back to look for the seahorses we found on each wall (yes, we found a seahorse on each of the walls) or we would just do the wrecks.
yes, we did see some people jump in water then swim directly back to resort as quickly as possible... silly people! we would see them later at lunch or dinner and tell them what they missed. like the field of garden eels out, or the group of 8-10 squid, or the seahorses...

robin

 

[DeputyDan]

June versus September

Go in June.

Herman and I were on Roatan during Hurricane Wilma which was in October. It rained sideways for three plus days - no diving and no fun.

Go in June!

 

[Doc]

...I was with a group at CCV (and with the same group in 2009) and CCV gave us one DM for our group of 15+ divers.

Groups often demand to all be on the same boat.

CCV's Four 50' boats are set up to hold (I'm estimating here) about 72 SCUBA tanks. If you figure two tanks per diver, that would mean 36 divers... never going to happen!

[There is also one twin screw deep-vee (FI's is an inexplicable single prop) and another shorter boat similar to the 50 footers mentioned]

CCV Boats that aren't "owned" by a group usually wind-up with 12 divers aboard. In that the shore dive is so inviting, usually two or four divers bail on the afternoon boat and just shore-dive instead. Most afternoon boats are even more empty than the morning.

If every one of those 15 divers in that group had spread out, there would be 6' in between each of them on a CCV boat. (simple math, they are 50' boats) Crowded? Really?

One other unusual feature of the boats... from prior posts, you see that they have a center moon-well- there is literally a hole in the bottom of the boat. This ladder is at the center of the "pitch" of the boat- essentially it remains motionless in the water no matter how bad the swells are. Another feature is very special- all of the boats have side cuts through the gunnels- there are three ways for divers to leisurely shuffle off the boat....

No back-rolls, no waiting in line. In that the interiors are all heavy pillars of fiberglassed wood, there are numerous hand-holds, both over-head and to the side, allowing a shuffling diver to make a semi-graceful, but always safe exit.

Note the handholds (in blue, far right and above)
the storage tables and platforms, and the
crowded nature of the very typical CCV boat.

And... grab bars in-line with the rear boarding ladders.

I have heard the same complaint here on SB about CCV boats when FI borrows one because they had their own equipment issues. CCV stopped loaning them without a CCV Captain because FI was packing them to the gunnels with 24 divers. Instant perception created of those "crowded boats" from CCV.

CCV's boats are designed to have more interior space, more interior storage and work surfaces for cameras and there is a large forward area behind the windscreen- which is the entire width of the boat- not just the pilot's station. A great place for many to stay dry and keep out of the weather.

Look at the pictures.

 

[Ron G.]

Doc,

My point wasn't that the boat was crowded (with 15+ divers), but that there was one DM for that many divers.

I was in Cozumel two months later and had the same number of divers in our group, but we had two DM's. (I think it might be a local regulation in Coz that there must be no more than 8 divers per DM.)

I'm always surprised how crowded it can get 60 feet underwater, so I'd rather be in a group of ten than fifteen.

(I'm not much of an expert on boats, but I did think the CCV boats were nicer. I didn't get to go out on the new FI boat, but it was definitely faster than ours.)

Ron

 

[billmosel]

Betty, when i was @ FI last March they would rope off part of the beach for the cruisers but they never dove with us. The cruisers also "stole" all of the lounges and put them in the roped off area. We just "stole" them back. Have fun!!

 

[DandyDon]

Doc,

My point wasn't that the boat was crowded (with 15+ divers), but that there was one DM for that many divers.

I was in Cozumel two months later and had the same number of divers in our group, but we had two DM's. (I think it might be a local regulation in Coz that there must be no more than 8 divers per DM.)

I'm always surprised how crowded it can get 60 feet underwater, so I'd rather be in a group of ten than fifteen.

(I'm not much of an expert on boats, but I did think the CCV boats were nicer. I didn't get to go out on the new FI boat, but it was definitely faster than ours.)

Ron

Cozumel's dive park rules require a DM per 8 divers, which is the only place I can think I've dived that requires any. FI puts one in per boat and while I don't remember how many were in any of the groups I've dived with, I think I was generally more than 10. Since the DMs point out interesting fish and inverts, divers to tend to crowd around them but I just veer off and do my own thing. I do that in Coz too and everywhere else I can think of.

Nice boats are nice, but it doesn't take much to please me. I always had 2 or 3 tank spaces to myself; loved that. The old, slow FI boats needed work but I like them.

 

[Doc]

Doc,

My point wasn't that the boat was crowded (with 15+ divers), but that there was one DM for that many divers.

I was in Cozumel two months later and had the same number of divers in our group, but we had two DM's. (I think it might be a local regulation in Coz that there must be no more than 8 divers per DM.)

CCV staffs the boats with 1 Captain and 1 Divemaster only. The DM to Diver ratio gets high when a large group insists on all being on the same boat.

The Coz regulation wouldn't surprise me. They are a bit protectionist in terms of job security- not a bad thing. The other point to consider is the difference between the abilities of divers who show up at Cozumel versus any of the AI's of Roatan. My experience has been that Coz is truly a wildly mixed bag of diver skills, added to the bogey of drift diving. It is like herding cats.

Good point about underwater crowding, though. When you consider the macro nature of the critters near FI and CCV, this can be a real problem... you have to get very close to see most of the cool stuff. I have been with a group of 6 where it was a nightmare, I have also been in a group of 14 when everybody had perfect skills and awareness of others.

Then you add photographers into the mix. Also a mixed bag.

It's really cool when a group works together, kind of playing leap-frog underwater. The DM points something out, then as the next diver leaves, he is sure to point it out to the following diver. This works best with divers strung out with good spacing, but sometimes these skills are not present.

A classic example is "how you are supposed to" DM a dive through Mary's Place or any constricted area. The briefing repeatedly stresses the "go slow, maintain spacing" mantra. At Mary's Place, the DM gathers everybody at 70fsw and points to one diver every thirty seconds to go ahead. I always tell people- "If you are bumping into someone's fins, you are going too fast". Quite often divers pile-up in any such environment.

I usually stay towards the back of the pack and just above, no matter how many or few divers are along for the tour. I do try to get to the magical critter before the last diver takes off, lord knows I have stared right at any number of things and had no clue that I was looking at something remarkable.

In Mary's Place, where I really never had one on one DM guidance (I doubt many people have), I was once guided through it with an expert. She pointed out stuff that I had been going right by for many dives and never had seen. Here are two things that are hiding right there, in plain sight:

A "Sun Zoanthid" hiding just as you come up after passing under the arch, So reactive to light that my one camera flash cause it to close up.

A huge Male Quillfin Blennie, maybe 6" long (sorry about the bad lighting). Apparently these are found commonly along the interior walls.

You're absolutely right- the attentions of a good DM are essential.

 

[LynnB]

When we were at Fantasy Island there were 2 people from a cruise that did one dive with us.
Didn't notice any other cruise ship people that I knew of. There were 9 on our boat for the week and we had one DM.
They were wonderful and the dive schedule was very easy to do. Since the majority of your time is spent diving we really didn't spend much time on the beach..

 

[robint]

The regulation about Cozumel is because it is drift diving, and it is hard for a group to stay together if larger than 8. Just the facts.

Roatan has very little current so unless divers need a babysitter, they all spread out on a dive site. There were many times on our dives that the CCV divemaster (one of the best we have every dived with) was not in our view, he was there and some divers stuck close to him. He let us do our own thing, back at boat at 1 hour.

robin