Question FFM risks?

[Marie13]

Are FFM a good way to start nervous children/youths in scuba?

Hell, no!

 

[waterone]

Are FFM a good way to start nervous children/youths in scuba?

As many others have said, absolutley not. If they are nervous to start then when they have some water intrusion they will surely freak out more than if it was just around the eyes filling up. Or when the reg skips/barks due to facial position and/or incorrect adjustment or some water when they forget to close the surface valve.....or.....or...or....

Basically there is way more to it than a standard dive setup and if wanted should be looked into after being comfortable underwater.

 

[SpaceCat]

Are FFM a good way to start nervous children/youths in scuba?

No, but in addition to what everyone else said about the skills required, it would also be difficult to find a FFM that fit. A FFM that doesn't fit causes a pile of problems.

 

[Bigbella]

Are FFM a good way to start nervous children/youths in scuba?

In a word -- no.

Aside from sizing limitations posed with full face masks, which, so far as I know, are wholly intended for adults, having a FFM, along with its criss-crossing, so-called "spider" harness, encapsulating your entire head, is not particularly relaxing to a novice, especially if one is already prone to nervousness.

I've used them for years; but when I first began, thought the harnessing a bit of a drag, even though I wasn't claustrophobic -- so too, there is the added tunnel vision, provided by a number of brands, especially if fitted with ballast weights, which are typically mounted near the temple, limiting both side-view view and light entry.

Another issue are the various safety concerns associated with FFMs, already exhaustively covered on other threads -- whether removing them underwater and switching to conventional masks, especially in cold water; or, else, issues with flooding, especially in "on-demand" masks, as opposed to the "over" or "positive" pressure varieties, which provide a constant flow of air, regardless of inhalation, and are nearly impossible to flood . . .

 

[vjb.knife1]

I use the Scubapro FFM at work and I like it because it is comfortable, and has a wider field of view. I was trained and worked as a commercial diver, and used KM bandmasks and superlight helmets, so it was a familiar choice for me.

 

[SlugLife]

If you have FFM training and practice the associated skills, FFM should be just as safe as "regular" scuba.
There are dangers associated with FFM. However to my awareness, asphyxia is a well known cheap-snorkel-FFM problem, but not a scuba-FFM problem.

I'm not FFM trained, but what I've heard and seen is, common dangers to an untrained FFM diver are:

• Being ready, practiced, and equipped to switch to your octo, backup mask, and actually having a backup mask.
• Ability to deal with an FFM flooding.
• Increased air consumption (leading to increased OOA risk)
• Not realizing FFM diving is different from "regular" diving, requiring unique skills and practice.

 

[SlugLife]

Notice: As of 29 April 2022, No one is permitted to use any Full Face Mask while on tours with our company for SCUBA Diving OR Snorkeling. * Sorry, zero exceptions to this policy.

When I wrote and asked for the reasons they said there had been too many fatalities. So I decided to post here to see if anyone had data on fatalities associated with FFMs and scuba. I can avoid the dive shop, that’s not a problem.

IMO, it's smart to ask for proof of FFM training, because there are dangers associated, but mostly only for divers who lack FFM training. It would be like them banning nitrox, because divers without nitrox training had a couple incidents with nitrox. Although, I'm pretty sure this dive-shop is just staffed by morons, who don't realize the FFM-incidents are snorkeling FFM incidents.

As far as incidents, Dive Talk had a video about an Adventures with a Purpose incident. Their lead, Jared handed a much newer diver Doug a FFM, along with a bunch of other new gear and took him to 100ft. Doug ran out of air, experienced difficulties switching. IMO, he lied about switching to his pony, and the real story is he got confused, didn't know what to do and instead of switching to the pony, he bolted for the surface.


I'd go with avoiding that dive-shop, because it sounds like they're fairly ignorant.

 

[SlugLife]

Are FFM a good way to start nervous children/youths in scuba?

Agreed with the "hell no" comments.

I'd also add that I personally wouldn't introduce, force, pressure, or even encourage scuba on someone who is nervous. The likelihood of panic is significantly higher, and panic itself is perhaps one of the greatest dangers in scuba-diving.

Getting them comfortable in the water first, at their own pace, seems like a much wiser choice. If they enjoy swimming, and then if they enjoy snorkeling or swimming underwater, they might start taking an interest in scuba. At that point, it might be the right time to introduce them using professional instructors.

 

[SpaceWarMachine]

I keep seeing this "increased air consumption" being thrown around when talking about "FFM Cons". Where does the data come to support this?

 

[vjb.knife1]

I keep seeing this "increased air consumption" being thrown around when talking about "FFM Cons". Where does the data come to support this?

There is no data to support this, because it is not true. I dive a Scubapro FFM on SCUBA 2 to 3 times a week at work and there is no difference. I spend more time in the water than anyone else in my company on a tank. Now if you are talking about a KMB Band mask running on surface supply and constant flow on top of demand then yeah, of course, but nobody here is talking about that. Most all non commercial models do not have that capability anyway.

Full Face Masks do not use more air than diving a regulator alone. As a matter of fact I am more relaxed and do not have to spend effort gripping the mouthpiece, so I may even use less air in the FFM. YMMV.