Female Diver Missing on The Yukon, San Diego

[Hatul]

Penetrating the Yukon is a serious dive. Over the years, I have seen many recreational divers pop in and out of the wreck. After a while, they go a little further and don't realize how much risk they are incurring. 80 cuft does not last long when lost on this wreck. We all need to respect the Yukon. For those who are curious, here is a video of the inside of the wreck

[video=vimeo;1488543]http://vimeo.com/1488543[/video]

The music is annoying.

 

[antattack]

The Yukon is a great wreck to practice running reels.

 

[scorpiofish]

The incident decribed in the OP is something every competent instructor worries about, every time they go into the water with a student, even if they don't admit it. I don't care if there are 2 students, 4 students, 8 students, it doens't matter if you have dove the site 100 times before. Every dive with students, for whom you are responsible - certified divers doing an advanced course, or brand new OW students, is a challenge and it doesn't matter if you have a CA (DM, et) or not.


So, I agree with the calls for patience, and avoidance of speculation.

Dam* straight.

Typical peanut gallery responses, "Where was her buddy?", "Where was her instructor?"

First, she apparently died outside the wreck, not as a penetration, nor would she have been if it were a PADI or equivalent wreck specialty course. Second, many divers don't understand the supervisory requirements for certified divers vs. open water students. Third, most don't realize how difficult it is to keep track of more than one student in 5 ft. visibility. Unless you have four eyes that work independently, it is nearly impossible. Fourth, when you hear visibility quoted, it's not always uniform, especially when it it is low. So, 10 ft. visibility may turn to 2 ft. in spots.

I've spent much time supervising students in near zero visibility. It takes about 5 seconds to go from complete control to WTF happened. My last weekend as an active instructor started with a deep dive, a free descent without reference. Three students and an AI. As soon as our heads went below water, I could see no one. The 5-10 ft. vis had gone to zero. Somewhere down there are four people, hopefully not entangled in the pecan grove at 100+ ft. I found the girl. Brought her to the surface. Oh wait! It's not the girl, it's one of the guys! The vis was so bad I couldn't tell them apart. Descended again on bubbles. Found the other guy and the girl and the AI. I look at the girl's computer, flashing "ERR".
Awesome. I got to take 7 people on a night dive later. That's another story.

Bottom line, if you haven't tried to maintain supervision on multiple people in very low visibility, you don't know how difficult it is. It's easy to sit at a computer and point out that the instructor should have been watching this woman.

 

[flots am]

Dam* straight.

Typical peanut gallery responses, "Where was her buddy?", "Where was her instructor?"

And they're excellent questions.

First, she apparently died outside the wreck, not as a penetration, nor would she have been if it were a PADI or equivalent wreck specialty course. Second, many divers don't understand the supervisory requirements for certified divers vs. open water students. Third, most don't realize how difficult it is to keep track of more than one student in 5 ft. visibility. Unless you have four eyes that work independently, it is nearly impossible.

"It's nearly impossible" is an excuse, not a justification. If it's nearly impossible to keep track of four students then maybe there should be only two. Or one. Or none.

Somewhere down there are four people, hopefully not entangled in the pecan grove at 100+ ft. I found the girl. Brought her to the surface. Oh wait! It's not the girl, it's one of the guys! The vis was so bad I couldn't tell them apart. Descended again on bubbles. Found the other guy and the girl and the AI. I look at the girl's computer, flashing "ERR".

That doesn't sound much like any kind of supervision.

Bottom line, if you haven't tried to maintain supervision on multiple people in very low visibility, you don't know how difficult it is. It's easy to sit at a computer and point out that the instructor should have been watching this woman.

Uhhh, yeah, a lot of us do. I know exactly how hard it is to maintain supervision in low viz, which is the reason the phrase "This doesn't look a safe dive, we're going to head back to shore and try again next week." was invented.

flots.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Dam* straight.

Typical peanut gallery responses, "Where was her buddy?", "Where was her instructor?"

First, she apparently died outside the wreck, not as a penetration, nor would she have been if it were a PADI or equivalent wreck specialty course. Second, many divers don't understand the supervisory requirements for certified divers vs. open water students. Third, most don't realize how difficult it is to keep track of more than one student in 5 ft. visibility. Unless you have four eyes that work independently, it is nearly impossible. Fourth, when you hear visibility quoted, it's not always uniform, especially when it it is low. So, 10 ft. visibility may turn to 2 ft. in spots.

I've spent much time supervising students in near zero visibility. It takes about 5 seconds to go from complete control to WTF happened. My last weekend as an active instructor started with a deep dive, a free descent without reference. Three students and an AI. As soon as our heads went below water, I could see no one. The 5-10 ft. vis had gone to zero. Somewhere down there are four people, hopefully not entangled in the pecan grove at 100+ ft. I found the girl. Brought her to the surface. Oh wait! It's not the girl, it's one of the guys! The vis was so bad I couldn't tell them apart. Descended again on bubbles. Found the other guy and the girl and the AI. I look at the girl's computer, flashing "ERR".
Awesome. I got to take 7 people on a night dive later. That's another story.

Bottom line, if you haven't tried to maintain supervision on multiple people in very low visibility, you don't know how difficult it is. It's easy to sit at a computer and point out that the instructor should have been watching this woman.

I agree that you cannot always predict the conditions you'll encounter ... and in a similar situation I immediately terminate the dive. You can't evaluate what you can't see, after all.

Speculation always runs rampant in accident discussions ... and people tend to make assumptions based on what they're predisposed to believe, which makes it difficult at times to have a meaningful discussion about events leading up to an accident. On the other hand, real information is rarely available, and there's a natural tendency to fill in the void ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added December 4th, 2012 at 07:08 AM ----------

And they're excellent questions.

... but not always relevent to what actually happened.

"It's nearly impossible" is an excuse, not a justification. If it's nearly impossible to keep track of four students then maybe there should be only two. Or one. Or none.

That's a valid point when conditions are predictable. Sometimes they're not. I had occasion twice this past year to abort dives after losing sight of a student ... and in both cases I had one, and we were facing each other as we descended. In both cases, visibility was acceptable until we hit about 20 feet ... at which point it became basically opaque. Dropping down through that layer, we were literally within arm's reach of and facing each other ... at which point I made physical contact and thumbed the dive.

This might be a lot more difficult to do at a deeper depth ... or on a wreck. It's not necessarily valid to make that judgment until you're faced with the situation.

That doesn't sound much like any kind of supervision.

You are aware, perhaps, that at certain levels and with certain agencies, the instructor isn't even required to be in the water with the students? I tend to disagree with that approach, but in some circumstances it is completely within standards. These were experienced divers ... not OW students.

Uhhh, yeah, a lot of us do.I know exactly how hard it is to maintain supervision in low viz, which is the reason the phrase "This doesn't look a safe dive, we're going to head back to shore and try again next week." was invented.

... which sounds to me like exactly what he did ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[peterbj7]

most don't realize how difficult it is to keep track of more than one student in 5 ft. visibility

Spot on, and I believe key to this accident. At an inquest in the UK some years back the coroner slated a PADI instructor and PADI teaching standards for even contemplating having more than one student in cold water and poor visibility. As a trainee DM in Britain 20 years ago I was often called on to help with groups of eight students, and I can honestly say that those groups were not under control. The instructor didn't know where most of the group were most of the time and was entirely dependent on his single qualified DM, plus my help. I've seen instructors here in the Caribbean lose students. Vastly inappropriate student ratios are far too common.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

The useless speculation and argument aside, this thread should be read by all instructors and DM's and divers. Not only proximity, but AWARENESS concerning your buddy, or students, is essential in training dives which by definition are stretching your competence zone- that's why we take them, and teach them. So many lessons arise from the tragedy other than that one: Equipment maintenance and inspection, emergency plans and procedures to follow; through briefing as to site and conditions, why weight ditching is important, and on and on. I for one will wait for an official report, if there is one. But from my years of experience , both as a recreational diver and dive pro, I know that first and foremost, we should implement all reasonable safety precautions. But even when we do, the unforseeable can happen, and result in tragedy. Rather than debating blame or speculating cause, I hope all who read of this tragic event will learn from it and the likelihood of it being repeated in another place or time will be reduced. My sincere wishes for peace for all who were close to and touched personally by this sad event.
DivemasterDennis

 

[flots am]

You are aware, perhaps, that at certain levels and with certain agencies, the instructor isn't even required to be in the water with the students? I tend to disagree with that approach, but in some circumstances it is completely within standards. These were experienced divers ... not OW students.

"Within standards" doesn't always mean "good idea".

flots.

 

[Power Scuba]

I believe, in a PADI Wreck Specialty course, the instructor is required to be in the water (ocean) with the students at all times.

At any rate, most/all certifying agencies caveat their standards requirements with a blurb stating that (para) conditions may mitigate the stated standards.

Bill

"Within standards" doesn't always mean "good idea".

flots.

 

[Mike Boswell]

It seems to me that we've had far too many dive accidents here in San Diego. I don't know why.

I'm not an expert on local conditions, but I do know that our ocean here in San Diego is a bit deceptive: From shore, it can look just as calm and blue and inviting as any tropical beach.

Even our official warning systems can deceive: I have taken my boat out on days where high surf advisories were in effect, and other than some 3-foot waves breaking across the channel, the ocean has been warm, blue, and dead calm. At other times, condition reports are fine, but the weather is cold, overcast, and windy, and the water is like a washing machine.

The surface may be relatively calm, but you can experience strong surges at depth. There can be strong currents too, and very unpredictable in strength, direction, and timing. Those currents can start or stop during the course of a single dive, and I've seen days where there was a strong surface current running East and an equally strong deep current running in the opposite direction.

The water temps here can dip down to 48 degrees F at 60 foot depths, cold enough that your gloved hands ache and your 9/7/6-mil wetsuit seems too thin. And the kelp forests and low vis and entanglement possibilities are additional things to contend with. Just finding your way back to your anchor and your boat, is a major accomplishment.

So, my hat is off to the many DM's who work here and successfully take students out and bring them back alive. I know I could never do it.

Please be careful if you dive here: It's harder than it looks.