Feb 19 2017 Cozumel diving fatality

[MMM]

If there was no sign of external injury, she could have been knocked on the head unconscious by a boat, since no SMB floating near the spot she went to the bottom.

Possibly. One of the later posts says the DM gave her his SMB but she may have dropped it and/or drifted from where she dropped it. Pretty much anything is possible outside of something that caused a gross injury.

 

[dmaziuk]

Visitors to the island, or visitors to the ocean?

visitors to the planet I expect

 

[dmaziuk]

I don't know how anyone could have know that she suffered a heart attack or a stroke without an autopsy having been performed and access to that information....especially since no one was at the surface with her to observe her and/or talk to her about what she was experiencing.

I briefly wondered how one would go about F-A-S-T underwater with masks and regs and all...

 

[halocline]

I don't know how anyone could have know that she suffered a heart attack or a stroke without an autopsy having been performed and access to that information....especially since no one was at the surface with her to observe her and/or talk to her about what she was experiencing.

You're right. According to boulderjohn's post, there's a report that she was seen on the surface and had not exhibited anything out of the ordinary prior to surfacing. A heart attack or stroke would help explain why she was later found deceased at depth, but that doesn't mean that it must have occurred. I'm not sure what else would explain it.

Once again, my condolences to anyone reading this thread who knew the woman involved.

 

[yle]

Really, the "safety Director of the island" was your dive guide? I've been here 16 years and had a dive shop for 15 and I've never heard of a "Safety Director" here other than someone in the police force, and he certainly wouldn't be moonlighting as a dive guide. Your numbers are very high - we do NOT by any stretch have 7 - 8 dive fatalities a year, unless you're including divers renting mopeds on their off time. Sounds like you were fed some hot air.

My apologies, certainly didn't intend to upset you. My Spanish isn't the best, so maybe something about his title was lost in translation. It was several years ago. All I know was that he was directing the effort, via radio, for the search of the missing diver (his operation had nothing to do with losing the diver) and he appeared to take the responsibility pretty seriously. He told us (we were in his truck, post-dive, while he was doing this) that he had spent a lot of time organizing meetings with dive ops on the island to find ways to work together to improve dive safety. So whatever title you would give that guy is fine with me. I won't get upset.

My point was simply that it was a guy who I reasonably assumed had a pretty good idea of how many divers were in the water in Coz on a daily basis; I was just explaining my source for my rough estimate of the number of dives done each year in Coz.

Really, the "safety Director of the island" was your dive guide? I've been here 16 years and had a dive shop for 15 and I've never heard of a "Safety Director" here other than someone in the police force, and he certainly wouldn't be moonlighting as a dive guide. Your numbers are very high - we do NOT by any stretch have 7 - 8 dive fatalities a year, unless you're including divers renting mopeds on their off time. Sounds like you were fed some hot air.

You're right, there aren't 7 or 8 per year in Coz, which is great. I probably should have worded that better. The only reason I used those numbers was that someone in a previous post threw a number of 1 dive fatality in 200,000 dives is the industry norm. What I really meant to say was that given 1.5 million dives a year 7 or 8 fatalities would be average (if all those numbers are correct.) But having far fewer than that, Coz is apparently much better than average (assuming that 1 in 200,000 is accurate.)

My point was that it's easy to underestimate how many dives are actually taking place at some place like Cozumel (which is why some people think my 1.5 million is too high...) and then misconstrue that there is a safety issue (when there really isn't one) when an accident occurs.

As for the hot air... the air I'm fed in Coz is always about the same temp as the water, which thankfully is much warmer than the water here at home.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't know what the rules are like in Mexico, but my reading of many DAN reports over the years leads me to believe that absent any sign of foul play in a case like this, there is often a ruling of a likely heart attack and no further investigation, meaning no autopsy.

A medical event like a heart attack is quite likely, but there is a potential cause that would make this a dive accident rather than a medical death while diving. The witness who contacted me said the DM handed her one of the two DSMBs he carried showed her how to work the reel. He said it took her a little while to understand it. She then began her ascent, reeling it in as she went. The witness said he looked away and was surprised when he later saw her all the way at the surface so soon, meaning she could not have done a full safety stop.

In a thread on requiring SMBs or DSMBs in Cozumel, I said that I did not recommend requiring DSMBs because they are harder to use than it looks. The first challenge is inflating it. The second is sending it up without entangling yourself. Both of those were done by the DM. The third challenge is reeling it in while ascending. It requires both hands. One hand is also needed to vent air from the BCD as you ascend--new OW divers are taught to hold the inflator hose high to vent while ascending. It is necessary to stop reeling from time to time to dump air and maintain neutral buoyancy, and if you don't, you may find yourself in an uncontrolled, rapid ascent as the BCD becomes over inflated. If that happens, you do not want to be holding your breath. It can be bad.

 

[dmaziuk]

The real question is how many of the assumed eight deaths are really preventable. Even then adherence to basic scuba protocols may be all that is needed.

It takes 23 people in the room to get a 50-50 chance of two of them having the same birthday. You can study each individual case and find out whose mother had sex when, why and how, but that's not going to change the statistic. The way you reduce the number of same day birthdays it is by not letting the 23rd person in. Preventing the 8th diver death works exactly the same way.

How much it's going to cost the island? -- All the money that diver would've spent there if they didn't turn them away at the door. Times the number of divers they have to turn away in order to change the statistic.

 

[mediumone]

It takes 23 people in the room to get a 50-50 chance of two of them having the same birthday.[/B] You can study each individual case and find out whose mother had sex when, why and how, but that's not going to change the statistic. The way you reduce the number of same day birthdays it is by not letting the 23rd person in. Preventing the 8th diver death works exactly the same way.

How much it's going to cost the island? -- All the money that diver would've spent there if they didn't turn them away at the door. Times the number of divers they have to turn away in order to change the statistic.

You wouldn't be able to show me that arithmetic, would you?
Please.

 

[dmaziuk]

Which part? You can google for birthday paradox yourself, as for money one spends on Coz, I've no idea: never been there.

 

[Dan]

... The witness who contacted me said the DM handed her one of the two DSMBs he carried showed her how to work the reel. He said it took her a little while to understand it. She then began her ascent, reeling it in as she went. The witness said he looked away and was surprised when he later saw her all the way at the surface so soon, meaning she could not have done a full safety stop.

In a thread on requiring SMBs or DSMBs in Cozumel, I said that I did not recommend requiring DSMBs because they are harder to use than it looks. The first challenge is inflating it. The second is sending it up without entangling yourself. Both of those were done by the DM. The third challenge is reeling it in while ascending. It requires both hands. One hand is also needed to vent air from the BCD as you ascend--new OW divers are taught to hold the inflator hose high to vent while ascending. It is necessary to stop reeling from time to time to dump air and maintain neutral buoyancy, and if you don't, you may find yourself in an uncontrolled, rapid ascent as the BCD becomes over inflated. If that happens, you do not want to be holding your breath. It can be bad.

Could it be possible that the DSMB dragged her up too fast to the surface, passing the safety stop due to entangled DSMB line?

Have they found the DSMB that was with her?

The first time I used DSMB was during a liveaboard trip check out dive. The liveaboard loaned DSMB to all divers to use during the dive trip. There was no reel came with the DSMB. The 20' lines was just piled up in the bottom of the DSMB net bag. Launching the DSMB was no problem as the line being pulled out of the net bag until the DSMB hit the surface. The problem was during ascending, I didn't have any spool to reel the line shorter. The excess line ended up hanging loosely under me & wrapped around my fins. Bad design. I think it should come with a reel.