FB posting - standards violations - how many can you pick out?

[Marie13]

Recreational scuba diving in the States began in Southern California. California and Florida rank 1 and 2 in the number of divers. Many have been diving for several decades without getting certifications beyond Open Water. Not everyone who dives beyond 130 feet has taken the multitude of classes that the OP has taken.

This is a TECH class we are discussing. Not someone who just has OW pushing their limits.

 

[rddvet]

While I don't always agree with Marie, I think it's dumb that people are getting pissed for her reporting what she saw. There are alot of bad instructors out there that should be held to a higher standard. From what I see Marie was just reporting something she felt concerning. I wish more people did that. Diving in cave country, I hear all the time "uggh I saw a person """"(add your favorite cave related stupidity-like the guy I watched literally walk along the bottom last week)". When I ask the complainer if they talked to the person the answer is always no. I'm not the scuba police, but I also believe if you see something truly dangerous or nuts, you should have a talk with the person. Now, in the days of everyone posting every minute of their lives to social media, if I see something nuts I may not be able to contact that person to discuss it. If it's a training-related safety issue, then the only recourse would be to contact the training agency.
Atul Gawande writes excellent books about the medical profession. Unforutnately it's a big problem in the medical field of doctors not wanting to report other doctors. There's a term for it I can't remember. He goes on to write about the detriment this brings to the medical field. Any professional field is the same. Someone doesn't want another professional to lose their livelihood even if they should. I get it, but people shouldn't be shamed or told their wrong for reporting something they perceive could be dangerous.
And lastly at the end of the day, if you post it to social media, you should expect it to be ripped to bits. So unless you look like you've got your sh-t together as an instructor, don't post stuff or let your students post.

 

[CuzzA]

Is there a lot of “cowboy” culture in FL (and CA, for that matter), with regards to the spear fishers?

It’s not a mentality I’m intimate with regards to diving. The Great Lakes wreck divers in my circle tend to be careful divers.

Yes, and don't forget the Louisiana Hell Divers too. Yet, you don't hear about many accidents from these divers despite the added task loading and inherently more dangerous activity during diving. Why? Because they dive a lot, all the time. Nothing can top experience.

Also, my observations are that spearfishermen and women tend to be more physically fit and many also freedive. So one could assume medical incidents are going to be less as well.

 

[johndiver999]

Guessing the repetitive standard is to show that planning and execution a repetitive dive profile from the classroom teaching is correctly applied in the water.

I guess, but a student could do the math for omitted decompression or do contingency calculations for exceeding planned time or depth and not actually do those activities. Along those lines, it seems like a student could be taught how to do a repetitive deco dive without being forced to actually do one by standards?

Some people seem VERY focused on making sure standards are followed, guess you can't pick and chose which ones you want to follow.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

This is a TECH class we are discussing. Not someone who just has OW pushing their limits.

Many of us have made hundreds of tech dives involving doubles, deco bottles, and mixed gas without a tech certification. Some get their training from mentors and reading textbooks without getting a cert card. It's been happening for decades.

 

[Marie13]

Many of us have made hundreds of tech dives involving doubles, deco bottles, and mixed gas without a tech certification. Some get their training from mentors and reading textbooks without getting a cert card. It's been happening for decades.

I don’t give a flying fig what dives you have been doing. We are discussing course standards for training dives. There is a difference regardless of what some of you think.

 

[Marie13]

o LIMITATIONS.
– All the required dives are to be made using a helitrox mixture, of which at least one is to be a
repetitive dive.


Interesting that those standards REQUIRE that deep diving be done in a repetitive manner. Wonder why that is a requirement? Do we interpret that to mean that repetitive decompression dives MUST be done to meet these NAUI standards or can it just be repetitive non-deco dives?

Isn't it safer to avoid repetitive deco dives? Why REQUIRE students to engage in this activity? Would an instructor be reported by people on this forum if a class did not comply with this specific requirement? If so, why?

That sure is a head scratcher. Not sure what TDI does about that. Maybe a TDI instructor can step in. @kensuf

 

[RainPilot]

o LIMITATIONS.
– All the required dives are to be made using a helitrox mixture, of which at least one is to be a
repetitive dive.


Interesting that those standards REQUIRE that deep diving be done in a repetitive manner. Wonder why that is a requirement? Do we interpret that to mean that repetitive decompression dives MUST be done to meet these NAUI standards or can it just be repetitive non-deco dives?

Isn't it safer to avoid repetitive deco dives? Why REQUIRE students to engage in this activity? Would an instructor be reported by people on this forum if a class did not comply with this specific requirement? If so, why?

As mentioned above, I suspect it’s in order to ensure students have the skill set to do repetitive dive planning for tech dives. In the helitrox range it’s not unusual for divers to do 2x lightish deco dives in a day. Two 20-30 minute BT dives to 130-140 feet is not unusual at all in my experience.

@RainPilot Thanks. Do you have the current NTEC with respect to tanks and BC?

I do but it’s the 2010 version still in effect so there’s a bunch of sources.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I don’t give a flying fig what dives you have been doing. We are discussing course standards for training dives. There is a difference regardless of what some of you think.

You asked,"Is there a lot of “cowboy” culture in FL (and CA, for that matter), with regards to the spear fishers?

It’s not a mentality I’m intimate with regards to diving. The Great Lakes wreck divers in my circle tend to be careful divers"

I answered.

 

[rddvet]

Yes, and don't forget the Louisiana Hell Divers too. Yet, you don't hear about many accidents from these divers despite the added task loading and inherently more dangerous activity during diving. Why? Because they dive a lot, all the time. Nothing can top experience.

Also, my observations are that spearfishermen and women tend to be more physically fit and many also freedive. So one could assume medical incidents are going to be less as well.

That's not entirely accurate. As someone growing up diving in La and knowing several of the hell divers, just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean the accidents don't happen. The hell divers historically have been very tight-knit and like to keep things within the group. I'm sure with social media a lot more is out there than before, and to be honest the hell divers are not the same group as they were 20 years ago. They are historically some bad ass, well accomplished spearos for sure though.