Fatality on Rosalie Moller wreck
- Thread starter vjongene
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I think you are making a lot more of something than what it really is - all we can do is rough guess at gas consumption with the info given but do some math - I figure she had a RMV of about .7, she used 120 bar in the first 17 minutes going to 30-34m. At 20m, she looses a weight and chases it down to 50m.
With all that, at 20m when she started the chase, she probably had 75-80 bar left and at her consumption rate, she had no more than 8 minutes of gas - adding some consumption in there for her stressed situation, I'd be suprised if she made it far off the bottom.
With all that, at 20m when she started the chase, she probably had 75-80 bar left and at her consumption rate, she had no more than 8 minutes of gas - adding some consumption in there for her stressed situation, I'd be suprised if she made it far off the bottom.
runsongas
Contributor
@Mod63 so you would insist on doing a dive without a DM even if you weren't comfortable with the dive profile? it is one thing to dive as a buddy team or even solo for a dive within your experience and comfort level. completely foolhardy to refuse help when the dive is beyond your comfort level.
contrary to european belief, following a DM does not diminish your dives if the DM is skilled and experienced. i gladly follow local DMs in the philippines, indonesia, etc. because I know they are going to spot much more of the small stuff than I will.
contrary to european belief, following a DM does not diminish your dives if the DM is skilled and experienced. i gladly follow local DMs in the philippines, indonesia, etc. because I know they are going to spot much more of the small stuff than I will.
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No, that's a complete missunderstanding. The first thing I taught my now wife was that she should call any dive even before she got into the water if it didn't feel right. So no issitingon doing a dive that is beyond my/our comfort level.
As for the DM, if she/he is a true "guide" showing me things that I would not find otherwise, I'm and most people I dive with appreciate it. But then there is the guides that shove you along and what is a total now go is a DM trying to rush me or leading a group of 8 with totaly different skills.
The OP doesn't state what the victim's gas state was after recovery. I assume she was completely empty, but we don't know. I agree with those that have mentioned the impact of the diver's comfort/psychology. Feeling like you "have to be over-weighted" is a sign of lack of experience and training. Even for the gentleman who told his story about uncontrolled ascents after switching to dry suit--once he gained the experience (trial and error) he resolved the issue.
My guess is this diver was on the razor's edge of panic from the moment she entered the water. Being dive #8 after several days of diving adds more mystery to that conclusion. Even divers who've had a long absence from the sport usually relax back into things after the first day/few dives. So, maybe something else was going on too. Maybe she suspected she MIGHT already be bent and thought the weight would make her safer? Obviously we all know that would be totally, doomingly wrong-headed, but people do totally, doomingly wrong-headed things every day.
Being over-weighted, she probably struggled with buoyancy during the dive (inflate, deflate, inflate, deflate, inflate....) which her cavalier buddy (I'll refrain from saying "cowboy...." It's not fair to cowboys) would NOT have noticed. The early Low On Air and ascent raised her threat level another notch, and then struggling to keep from resembling a Trident Missile on ascent raised it again. The fuse was lit on descent. By now, there was nothing left.
When that weight tumbled out (and wait....how exactly did THAT happen?), fight or flight kicked in. In this case, either option would have put her at risk of injury or death. The option that clicked in her brain didn't get considered. She just "went."
This dive ends differently if:
- The diver was confident and calm; and/or
- The diver had competency with buoyancy (overweighting is a cheat....and a dangerous one at that); and/or/maybe
- The diver had an attentive and capable buddy; and/or/maybe
- The DM (if there was a working DM in the water (not the OP)....I've forgotten now if there was) noticed the stress level and stuck with this diver through the dive
Sadly none of these factors seemed to have been present. My condolences to her friends and family.
Soapbox moment: I've you're reading this and you've not done something like a "peak performance buoyancy" course, I HIGHLY recommend you do. Even if you don't THINK you're doing anything wrong, you'll learn something and be a better diver for it. Soapbox--off!
My guess is this diver was on the razor's edge of panic from the moment she entered the water. Being dive #8 after several days of diving adds more mystery to that conclusion. Even divers who've had a long absence from the sport usually relax back into things after the first day/few dives. So, maybe something else was going on too. Maybe she suspected she MIGHT already be bent and thought the weight would make her safer? Obviously we all know that would be totally, doomingly wrong-headed, but people do totally, doomingly wrong-headed things every day.
Being over-weighted, she probably struggled with buoyancy during the dive (inflate, deflate, inflate, deflate, inflate....) which her cavalier buddy (I'll refrain from saying "cowboy...." It's not fair to cowboys) would NOT have noticed. The early Low On Air and ascent raised her threat level another notch, and then struggling to keep from resembling a Trident Missile on ascent raised it again. The fuse was lit on descent. By now, there was nothing left.
When that weight tumbled out (and wait....how exactly did THAT happen?), fight or flight kicked in. In this case, either option would have put her at risk of injury or death. The option that clicked in her brain didn't get considered. She just "went."
This dive ends differently if:
- The diver was confident and calm; and/or
- The diver had competency with buoyancy (overweighting is a cheat....and a dangerous one at that); and/or/maybe
- The diver had an attentive and capable buddy; and/or/maybe
- The DM (if there was a working DM in the water (not the OP)....I've forgotten now if there was) noticed the stress level and stuck with this diver through the dive
Sadly none of these factors seemed to have been present. My condolences to her friends and family.
Soapbox moment: I've you're reading this and you've not done something like a "peak performance buoyancy" course, I HIGHLY recommend you do. Even if you don't THINK you're doing anything wrong, you'll learn something and be a better diver for it. Soapbox--off!
This situation is contrary to my general experience with three different dive shops in Egypt.
All three of those were focused on executing safe dives within recreational limits. One head guide even told a second guide he supervised, that if his computer said anything below 40 m he would be immediately fired. This was prompted by a diver under his supervision wanting to go to 50 m.
Recreational divers were not allowed to do either shore nor boat dives without a CDWS guide in the water. We had some individual divers or pairs of divers with their own dive guide. The maximum number of divers I ever saw with one diveguide was four divers. One diver was not even allowed out of the lighthouse area in Dahab because the guide did not have confidence in her recently certified skills.
All three of those were focused on executing safe dives within recreational limits. One head guide even told a second guide he supervised, that if his computer said anything below 40 m he would be immediately fired. This was prompted by a diver under his supervision wanting to go to 50 m.
Recreational divers were not allowed to do either shore nor boat dives without a CDWS guide in the water. We had some individual divers or pairs of divers with their own dive guide. The maximum number of divers I ever saw with one diveguide was four divers. One diver was not even allowed out of the lighthouse area in Dahab because the guide did not have confidence in her recently certified skills.
Interesting. I wasn't aware of how tightly controlled things are there. Greece used to be like this...but that was mainly due to trying to keep "permit" revenue coming in. No idea if it's still like that. In Turkey, you used to be at risk of learning that your shore diving ingress/egress route had been declared a "restricted military area" between said ingress and egress. That was always a good time.....surface intervals are always more fun with the troops.
Jack Hammer
Contributor
I would suspect being unfamiliar with the dive computer she didn't realize how deep she was for recovering the weight. I think most divers wouldn't consider dropping to 50m, even briefly, with only half an 80 or less remaining.
OP
vjongene
Contributor
Her tank was empty when she was recovered, as you surmised.
OP
vjongene
Contributor
Thanks for the analysis, which I think is right on the nose. Yes, there were two working DMs in the water. One was acting as a private guide to a pair of divers, while the other was with a different group (there were 13 guests in the water). As a rule the DMs were very attuned to what was going on, but unfortunately the viz on the Rosalie M. makes it impossible to track everyone. Btw, there was an inquest after the accident, and every single diver on the boat praised the work that the DMs did. This included finding and retrieving a dead body. Both DMs were in tears.
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