Fatality in Rockport, Ontario - 4/Feb/2006

[Cacia]

This one is my personal demon. My grandpa died of a hearattack, my pop's had 2. Guess who is in line for one? I try to avoid it by doing cardio, weight, staying in shape, etc. Well, pop's first was despite being uber-fit.

That is why I have a very selfish reason for wanting to learn more from the medical results in incidents like this. Yes, exertion is one factor but are there compounding factors, etc.? Here's keeping my eyes peeled for results from DAN.

Vandit (32, and still a ways to go, but concerned nonetheless)

Vandit, now I am no physician, so check this out. But, if I were you, I would keep aspirin with you. They now advocate dosing yourself if you have chest pain. I think the idea is that if you can keep the platelets from sticking together, you can mitigate the damage to the heart muscle. Personaly, I believe in taking fish oil (purified, no heavy metals) daily and 81 mcg asa. Popping an aspirin in the event of chest pain could really help. That 20-30 min of cardio every day at your target rate is another thing I believe in. ask your doc about the aspirin.

 

[DandyDon]

Vandit, now I am no physician, so check this out. But, if I were you, I would keep aspirin with you. They now advocate dosing yourself if you have chest pain. I think the idea is that if you can keep the platelets from sticking together, you can mitigate the damage to the heart muscle. Personaly, I believe in taking fish oil (purified, no heavy metals) daily and 81 mcg asa. Popping an aspirin in the event of chest pain could really help. That 20-30 min of cardio every day at your target rate is another thing I believe in. ask your doc about the aspirin.

Roger that! I was an aspirin every dive day man even before I experienced a DVT, with a bottle in my dive bag.

Now it's every morning, and especially on dive days.

 

[Storm]

This one is my personal demon. My grandpa died of a hearattack, my pop's had 2. Guess who is in line for one? I try to avoid it by doing cardio, weight, staying in shape, etc. Well, pop's first was despite being uber-fit.

That is why I have a very selfish reason for wanting to learn more from the medical results in incidents like this. Yes, exertion is one factor but are there compounding factors, etc.? Here's keeping my eyes peeled for results from DAN.

Vandit (32, and still a ways to go, but concerned nonetheless)

In know just how you feel. I lost my father to heart disease (he had his first at 48), so as I have now hit 42, the concerns start to become more accute. And yes I too generally keep a close watch on these types of accidents. If there is any medical reason, expecially cardiac related, I bring out the microscope to see if there is anyhing in my lifestyle habits (diving included) that is similar. I also keep a close eye on DAN findings.

Keep yourself safe, but don't let your concerns dominate your life to the point where you forget to live it. My father did that, and it in the end it did more harm than good.

Peace and health.

 

[LAJim]

DandyDon:

I had major DVT problems after my neurosurgery and was on warfarin for 6 months. Was your DVT in any way dive related? Has your physician said anything about DVT and diving?

Jim

 

[DandyDon]

DandyDon:

I had major DVT problems after my neurosurgery and was on warfarin for 6 months. Was your DVT in any way dive related? Has your physician said anything about DVT and diving?

Jim

I wouldn't want to hijack this thread, so I will quote you on my original thread and discuss this with you there. Please go here

 

[AXL72]

I note Storm's wishes and concerns. However, I have learned a great deal from all of the posts in here (and I mean all!...especially the tactful way to approach and discuss a dive plan and cautions with a diver who may be a total stranger..and even floater's posts).

I totally agree with, "...no one can say what they would or would not do until you are there..."

How many times have any of us ditched our weights?

Maybe PADI open water classes should start teaching divers it by having them ditch weights (with purged BCD, of course) in a controlled environament (so the weights can be recovered) just to give the experience of doing it at least once.

Also, some people in parrel find themselves in denial, which could pose a dilema in knowing the diar need to drop weights. If you live in Texas, you probably can imagine a situation of a homeowner grilling out during a burn-ban (dry drought conditions) and setting his house on fire. I would imagine the homeowner might be embarassed or worried of the legal consequences to a point where he may question the need to call the fire department and instead try to garden hose the fire out first.


Also, this death is perturbing to me. Could the victim have run out of air with the poor practice of not regularly monitoring air pressure? If this is the case (not saying it is), what a morbid thought. Could the diver, starting out as being overweighted, find himself out of air, in a panic, and trying to gasp what little air remained in his mask (maybe even taking it off from the unbearable pressure) before gasping what little air remained in his bcd and dry suit, only to be in a perilous dilema of not being able to reach the surface with negative buoyancy, possibly being overweighted, and having no air for consumption or inflation for buoyancy. Frightening thought!...especially knowing that i would not know what i would do in the same situation, until i were in the thick of it, myself.

It was interesting to read the part of the valve being turned off after rescue / recovery in a fashion to save what little air evidence remained in the tank. This might have been a good idea. Smart to leave the valve open upon ascent and trip to shore, just in case the decreasing ambient pressure would have the remote possibility to get as much additional air volume out of the tank and into teh BCD for the swim to shore.

Finally, I totally support the two divers who got the victim to the surface. I would do a safety stop no matter what. My rationale is that if a safety stop is not needed in this situation when the computer or dive tables call for it, then why do we do it at all in non-emergency situations? Are we all fools for wasting time at safety stops? I argue that we need to practice the safety stops every single time, irregardless of a situation like this. The only exception is when both the diver and the buddy are out of air (or when a separated diver is out of air) and the consequences of not getting to the surface immediately outweigh the consequences of missing the safety stop. I would not blindly cross a road to help someone in danger on the other side. I would look both ways before crossing, just as I would do the safety stop before surfacing...aka ALL THE TIME, air supply permitting.

 

[DandyDon]

I discussed this case a little at my Rescue class. My Inst agreed with removing the gear from the stricken diver in getting him ashore, and agreed with turning the valve off - counting the turns, so the rescuer could assure authorities that it was empty on retrieval and did not leak to empty afterwards. Hope I never find myself in this position, but I have learned additionally from the appropriate actions of the rescuers here, and this discussion. Thanks again.

 

[vkalia]

Catherine, Storm, Don - thanks for the tips. I will keep aspirin handy. I've also started popping 1 cod liver oil pill a day as well, and starting eating more fish/veggies and less red meat (*sniff*)... I do a mixed bag of cardio/weights in the offseason (4-5x a week), my body fat is still around 12-13%, etc. but as I said, so was my dad's, when he had his first. If it happens, it happens - I dont plan to make it any easier for "them", but I am not going to give up my passion just to be safe.

AxL:

Maybe PADI open water classes should start teaching divers it by having them ditch weights (with purged BCD, of course) in a controlled environament (so the weights can be recovered) just to give the experience of doing it at least once.

SSI requires that. By flaring and proper body positioning to maximize drag, you can control the speed of ascent to some extent (although the last few meters are going to be fast, depending on the type of suit you have).

However, it isnt so much the practice that is critical as an understanding of the risk factors, and "when-to-apply".

If you do an uncontrolled ascent, you *are* increasing your risk for sure - if you dont keep your airway open, you are risking death; depending on how fast you come up, you are also increasing the likelihood of DCS.

However, it is a matter of risk management. Given the choice between dying, and going straight up to the surface, I'll choose the risk of DCS any day of the week. DCS is curable, death isnt. As I tell my students - for you to be in this position, you must have (a) not monitored your air (farm animal stupid, to borrow a phrase), (b) been without a buddy and (c) deep -- that's three strikes. Normally, that'd be out but you have a chance.

Divers should understand these different factors and know when to choose the lesser of two evils.

And over-weighting is *evil*!

Vandit

 

[FreeFloat]

Just so you know, AF the guy who did the rescue, has, shall we say, some experience working in the investigative field dealing with equipment recovered from divers post-'incident'. I'd certainly trust his treatment of the gear as appropriate.

 

[DandyDon]

Just so you know, AF the guy who did the rescue, has, shall we say, some experience working in the investigative field dealing with equipment recovered from divers post-'incident'. I'd certainly trust his treatment of the gear as appropriate.

Thanks. That has not been previously established, so I had no way of knowing. Learning more all the time...