"Family of drowned Tennessee diver sues dive shop"

[boulderjohn]

ahhh...blame the instructor again. If the updates, forums and continuing education of instructors was important, beyond making it available should the agency not also make a certain degree of CE/updates mandatory? Why would they allow a instructor with no updating of their professional qualifications to teach?

Well, we are getting into a different question now, aren't we? Let's see how that would happen.

PADI puts out a quarterly professional journal that goes over training issues. It has quarterly training updates as well. It sends out a new manual every year for instructors to read. You can go to the web site and read materials on your own log in or on someone else's login. You might be an employee of an organization that keeps its employees informed of all these issues. For my first half dozen years as a professional, the Course Director where I worked kept us all update on new information.

In other words, it is very possible that an instructor has read all the information and gotten well updated without PADI having had a clue that it happened. It would take a monumental and quite costly effort to give annual exams to instructors to make sure they are keeping up with things.

I had a career in public education. Every state has laws designed to make sure that teachers stay current with changing information about teaching. That is a complete joke. In a large part of my career, my job was to give teachers that updated information. They are largely immune to it. I would bet that if I gave a test on current learning theory to a random collection of teachers, fewer than 10% would pass.

 

[cerich]

I had a career in public education. Every state has laws designed to make sure that teachers stay current with changing information about teaching. That is a complete joke. In a large part of my career, my job was to give teachers that updated information. They are largely immune to it. I would bet that if I gave a test on current learning theory to a random collection of teachers, fewer than 10% would pass.

I suspect that is true of diving as well, with much more immediate deadly effects than poor academic grasp of current learning technique.

So the argument can be summed up by "well it's too hard to track it" versus, "students lives are important, let's tracl it using some of this modern computer stuff to help"

 

[boulderjohn]

I suspect that is true of diving as well, with much more immediate deadly effects than poor academic grasp of current learning technique.

So the argument can be summed up by "well it's too hard to track it" versus, "students lives are important, let's tracl it using some of this modern computer stuff to help"

Well, they do survey a large portion of their students to see what is happening, and if you are not teaching many students, they are sure to survey the ones you do. I just started teaching PADI tech after crossing over from TDI, and my students are definitely being surveyed to find out how closely I adhered to the standards.

 

[boulderjohn]

I suspect that is true of diving as well, with much more immediate deadly effects than poor academic grasp of current learning technique.

So the argument can be summed up by "well it's too hard to track it" versus, "students lives are important, let's tracl it using some of this modern computer stuff to help"

So, you either are or were on the board of NAUI, Can you explain what NAUI does to make sure all of its instructors stay current with information and adhere to training standards?

 

[cerich]

So, you either are or were on the board of NAUI, Can you explain what NAUI does to make sure all of its instructors stay current with information and adhere to training standards?

NAUI has and has had a CE requirement for their instructors forever. In fact IT's, CD's and Tech Instructors have to attend mandatory requals periodically to keep their status. Do i think it's perfect? Nope. not even close. In the past HQ did a poor job tracking it. It's something I expressed concern about when I was a board member

I am no longer on the NAUI Board by the way.

 

[Wookie]

As a captain, I have mandatory CE every 5 years. Firefighting, radar, soon to add ECDIS and ARPA. What those mandatory classes do is help me to keep up with the latest information available to professional mariners to keep my passengers safe. Training agencies don't do this. Fair enough.

I believe you brought up doctors earlier. Doctors undergo mandatory CE to keep their licenses intact and up to date. They often go to places like the Bahamas and Fiji to attend these classes. They do this to keep their patients safe.

Pilots undergo mandatory simulator exercises and a "line check" annually to keep them abreast of the latest information to help them to keep their passengers safe.

Firemen are constantly training as are policemen, paramedics, EMTs and other folks who might not be responsible for their folks life, but sometimes are.

As scuba instructors we are welcome to go to a website for our updates, or not. We can attend member forums. Or not. Really, it's up to us to keep up to date for the people whose lives we are responsible for. Or not. I don't teach anything but nitrox and SDI solo. I am very well aware of the relationship between SDI, Willis, Owl Underwriting, and Marsh. I have been personal friends witht he underwriter for many years, and their chief counsel is also my business attorney. I would be more than happy to introduce you either by facebook or by e-mail. The have no secrets unless it's ongoing litigation. They will explain the relationship to you as they did to me.

 

[Wookie]

You put me in my place all right...goodness. I will know better than to play with the big boys from now on.

Awww. Don't go away mad....

 

[Colliam7]

I have neither a logon to the website, nor have I ever attended a member forum. I am operating on the information I got in 1996.

It is always intriguing to see those behaviors about which people like to boast.

Pilots undergo mandatory simulator exercises and a "line check" annually to keep them abreast of the latest information to help them to keep their passengers safe.

NOT true, as stated.

 

[Wookie]

It is always intriguing to see those behaviors about which people like to boast.NOT true, as stated.

Point is, I don't instruct. I'm a professional in other fields. But I could if I wanted to. You mad, bro?

 

[Colliam7]

Point is, I don't instruct. I'm a professional in other fields. But I could if I wanted to. You mad, bro?

No, I am not mad. At all. But, I confess, your post seemed to be a bit of a boast. And, I would not necessarily boast of this.

Also, having said that, I do think I understand your point, and I actually am sympathetic to the issue you raise. PADI - or any other training agency for that matter - can make A LOT of information available to Instructors / Dive Professionals. But, that doesn't mean they access it / take advantage of it / use it to remain current. That is very lamentable. I - personally and individually - would prefer that my renewal of Instructor credentials involve some documentation of continued professional development. That is the case in my health profession. That is also the case in my credentialing as a pilot - I have to undergo an actual biannual flight review, including time in the air. I do not believe that the scuba instruction 'profession' has yet adopted that mindset. I wish they would - PADI, NAUI, SDI/TDI, etc. I understand (second hand) that GUE has, and I say, 'Kudos to them!'

At the same time, I also appreciate the state of maturity of the dive instruction 'profession'. And, while it (really) annoys me that instructors DO NOT always take advantage of opportunities to continue their development, that annoyance is my load to bear.

Millions of people in the US drive automobiles for many years after licensure, with very limited requirements for recurrency training, beyond an eye test (or a written examination if you have been guilty of an in fraction in the immediate prior renewal period). I suspect that is probably a much more significant public health issue than scuba instructors who fail to maintain currency.